On Tue, Mar 07, 2017 at 04:03:12PM +0100, [email protected] wrote: > I see you are not teaching to people or running demos in a crowd with Pharo. > > Otherwise, you would get the point I can tell you 100%
To me it seems like bad engineering. One does not query a network synchronously and expect things to just work (or work at all). We should take a hint from Node and JS and promises about handling this. This is a basic requirement that any novice JS web developer knows how to handle. Speaking of the opposite, I noticed that loading projects in Pharo 6 no longer completely freezes the UI (unlike 5), which is *thumbs up*. :) Peter > > Phil > > On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:19 PM, Dimitris Chloupis <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Frankly I fail to see the problem, if a tool connects to the internet and > > does not have some sort of timeout or speed check then is the obligation of > > the tool to fix that and not of Pharo to offer an airplane mode. Its would > > make an already complex pharo environment even more complex. Not to exclude > > the fact that having two mode will create useless confusion for beginners. > > > > Offer a new mode for Pharo ? No > > Offer methods that check internet connectivity and internet speed for > > pharo tool developers to use ? Yes > > > > I feel that Pharo can be simplified down to 1% without the need for a big > > compromise on features. Maybe it does not matter for us that are used to > > working with Blender but its a huge deal for beginners and if we want to > > attract a lot more new users. > > > > My dream is that version 8 be dedicated ONLY to simplifying the Pharo > > code, by removing all the extra fat. No new bug fixes (unless created by > > the removal of the code), no new features. I know we have bootstrap , but > > thats a completely different thing. > > > > On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 3:15 PM [email protected] <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19818/Support-for- > >> Airplane-mode-in-Pharo for keeping track of this > >> > >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 1:02 AM, Ben Coman <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 6:35 AM, [email protected] <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > This is not only when teaching. > >> > > >> > I was at a conference today and showcased some Grafoscopio. > >> > > >> > Spotty wifi and crowded bandwith makes it bad looking. > >> > > >> > We need an "Airplane mode" switch. > >> > >> That is a cool way to describe it. A well know paradigm. > >> Its a setting that probably would change daya to day more than any other, > >> so perhaps it would even be reasonable to have this as a permanent > >> mode button on the background, > >> or the task bar much like MS Windows taskbar status icons. > >> > >> cheers -ben > >> > >> > > >> > Maybe can we have that available in the session from the settings. > >> > > >> > Phil > >> > > >> > On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 10:55 PM, Yuriy Tymchuk <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> The problem is that there are people who give lectures in universities > >> >> with bad internet (internet is bad in most of the universities I > >> tried) and > >> >> they done want freezes. On the other hand we have people who sit in > >> their > >> >> offices with fast machines, fast internet and they want features. > >> Until now > >> >> we were looking at how to satisfy one of the groups and which one > >> exactly. > >> >> Why not to try finding a solution for both. For example we can have the > >> >> plugging enabled by default and have Spotter measuring the time needed > >> to do > >> >> a query. Whenever the time surpasses frustration limit (10 sec? I duno) > >> >> Spotter will ask if the user wants to turn off the plugin, of turns it > >> of > >> >> automatically and tells where to re-enable it. The other way would be > >> to > >> >> have known plugins to appear at the bottom of Spotter, and a user can > >> >> install/enable them with one click. So when you search but there is > >> nothing > >> >> you know that there are more plugins that may solve your problem. > >> >> > >> >> Yes it is more complicated to implement in in a smart way rather them > >> just > >> >> set the default boolean value of a setting, but we spend too much time > >> >> anyway convincing the other side that we are right… > >> >> > >> >> Uko > >> >> > >> >> > On 6 Mar 2017, at 21:30, stepharong <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > One day I would like to invite you to give a lecture in a not that > >> bad > >> >> > french university > >> >> > with a not that good network. Each time Pharo freezes you pay me 5 > >> Euros > >> >> > only and we can > >> >> > go and pay some really expensive restaurant with your money. > >> >> > Simple on my machine it times out every five minutes. > >> >> > > >> >> > <sorry I could not resist> > >> >> > > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 19:51, stepharong <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> We should make it available from the catalog :) > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Yes, it most certainly should be. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> If only we could then tell user to type > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Shift-Enter Sublimish Enter > >> >> >> > >> >> >> to install it using Spotter right from the catalog ;-) > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Sorry, I couldn't resist ... <ducking> > >> >> >> > >> >> >>> 2017-03-06 9:29 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected]>: > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 09:22, Pavel Krivanek <[email protected] > >> > > >> >> >>>> wrote: > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> 2017-03-06 8:20 GMT+01:00 Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected] > >> >: > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:57, [email protected] wrote: > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> https://ci.inria.fr/pharo/job/Pharo-6.0-Issue-Validator- > >> simple/7294/artifact/report.html > >> >> >>>>> is not integrated for some Monkey reason anyway - still should > >> b/c if you > >> >> >>>>> put sublimish, you need a decent matching Spotter. > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> Also, I see > >> >> >>>>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19796/Remove-duplicate- > >> code-from-SublimishTheme > >> >> >>>>> on 5/3. If this moves forward, why not the other one? > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> BTW Sublimish was an extra thing. Who got that in image? > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> I don’t know. > >> >> >>>> It shouldn’t :) > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> What we should do is to create a page for themes and links to it > >> (and > >> >> >>>> they should be in catalog) :) > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> Well, it was me who proposed the slice and yes, I was aware of the > >> >> >>>> fact that I should not do it because of code freeze (I was not > >> aware of the > >> >> >>>> two themes policy). > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> it is not a policy, it is just the idea I have :) > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> We can remove it again, I will prepare a slice. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> problem with it is that is makes ripples. > >> >> >>> If community want it (is nice), we can include it, but I would wait > >> >> >>> for P7, yes. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/19801/Remove-SublimishTheme > >> >> >>> At least it was an advertisement for this theme that moved it > >> forward > >> >> >>> and the integration of it helped to improve the dark theme too. > >> And showed > >> >> >>> again how much we need the concept of palettes used strictly in > >> the system. > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> -- Pavel > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> Esteban > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> -- Pavel > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>> Esteban > >> >> >>>> > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> Phil > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 7:43 AM, Esteban Lorenzano > >> >> >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> On 6 Mar 2017, at 07:17, Esteban Lorenzano <[email protected] > >> > > >> >> >>>>>> wrote: > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> Hi, > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> First, let me be clear: I *like* sublimish theme (not for my > >> use, > >> >> >>>>>> but I like it), and I like (a lot) the windows list on spotter, > >> and I like > >> >> >>>>>> in general all this new additions. > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> By the way, even if I like it, I would not have integrated > >> >> >>>>> SublimishTheme. For same reason I didn’t integrated > >> DarkMetalTheme: My idea > >> >> >>>>> is to have just two themes *in image*: one white, one dark, and > >> allow people > >> >> >>>>> to install other themes from catalog. > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> Why? Because each class inside image becomes our responsibility > >> and > >> >> >>>>> then a maintainability issue. With themes in particular already > >> happened > >> >> >>>>> that existing themes became abandonware inside the image and we > >> needed to > >> >> >>>>> clean up, not without problems. > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> cheers, > >> >> >>>>> Esteban > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>> ps: which means also yes: that issue got integrated because I > >> failed > >> >> >>>>> to control the flow of issues... > >> >> >>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> And I know, most of those additions are usability enhancements > >> so a > >> >> >>>>>> good thing. > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> But can you guys stop pushing new features into a (in theory) > >> >> >>>>>> frozen version? > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> Pharo 7 will arrive soon… *if* we can fix all things missing. > >> If I > >> >> >>>>>> can suggest an orientation, it would be good, for those that > >> use linux and > >> >> >>>>>> mac (windows is not ready), to test and help fix 64bits version. > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> There are still plenty of bugs to fix there, like for example > >> why > >> >> >>>>>> Spotter does not shows search line. > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> Last week I added support to Athens and SDL2 in 64bits but that > >> >> >>>>>> meant: > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> - some important changes in UFFI > >> >> >>>>>> - discover something that seems is failing on callbacks for > >> Cairo > >> >> >>>>>> (no idea if it is a callbacks problem or an image problem that > >> causes a > >> >> >>>>>> callback problem). > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> I would say all this and the fact we are working on 64bits in > >> >> >>>>>> general deserves a lot of testing. > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> I will add links in Pharo page to download 64bits (I’m at the > >> train > >> >> >>>>>> now), but in the mean time you can download all from here: > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo-64.zip > >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-linux-latest.zip > >> >> >>>>>> (linux) > >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/pharo64-mac-latest.zip > >> (mac) > >> >> >>>>>> http://files.pharo.org/get-files/60/sources.zip (in case you > >> need > >> >> >>>>>> them) > >> >> >>>>>> > >> >> >>>>>> cheers, > >> >> >>>>>> Esteban > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> > >> >> >>> -- > >> >> >>> Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Using Opera's mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > >> > >>
