Hi Steven, > Am 21.07.2021 um 16:58 schrieb Steven Costiou <[email protected]>: > > Le 2021-07-21 16:26, Esteban Maringolo a écrit : > >> but calling people >> names does not foster dialogue, > > Exactly! I don't want to dialogue with nazis and hear their shit, I want them > to go away. > > And don't play the naive card: using precise keywords "woke", "woke > incursion", "virtue-signalling", etc. are the mark of the nazis calling for > more nazis to help them shut social and political actions down. > It is factual. I am not the one insulting.
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I am deeply annoyed and offended with Mr. Raus vocabulary and argumentation on the topic. I too see no use whatsoever in trying to argue with these people, and I too want them to go away if they cannot help themselves and shut up about these topics. Thank you for speaking up! Without you I would not have had the courage to state my view. Best regards, Bernhard Pieber >> and certainly doesn't help building a >> stronger community. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Esteban A. Maringolo >> >> On Wed, Jul 21, 2021 at 7:18 AM Steven Costiou <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Bullshit bullshit bullshit. >>> >>> It is not about feeling oppressed and stuff, it is about systemic racism >>> that impregnated our vocabulary and that we are trying to get rid off. >>> We should say in the FAQ that we support the idea of the transition but >>> that for now, technically, using "master" is easier with Pharo until anyone >>> from the community takes her time to solve the project. >>> >>> Woke + Virtue-Signalling => nazi words used by nazis to tell other nazis >>> that they should nazify the discussion and kill every effort about any kind >>> of social movement discussion. >>> + typical nazi arguments everywhere in your messages... We're not stupid. >>> >>> Vocabulary and things will change. Pharo is political (in every way), so it >>> has a political dimension and it will be discussed. >>> You can do nothing about it. >>> Just quit. >>> >>> Le 2021-07-21 11:51, [email protected] a écrit : >>> >>> Ugh. Slight history lesson / disambiguation. >>> >>> The phrasing „woke" actually came from „the left", first it was being >>> „woke" about feminism, then this, then that. >>> >>> Then, those who felt oppressed by the sexist arguments of extreme, „woke" >>> fraction of feminism, or racist arguments of those posing as anti-racists >>> (and I could go on), started to use it as a pejorative, for those pushing >>> insane propaganda, and for the propaganda itself. >>> >>> Then, those who called themselves / their positions „woke" in the past, >>> started screeching that it is „extreme right vocabulary". >>> >>> As multiple people pointed out, master repository doesn't have anything to >>> do with slavery; as I pointed out there is need to feel butthurt about some >>> words even if your ancestors were affected by the concepts they were also >>> used for. So you points are completely invalid, virtue-signalling garbage. >>> >>> But it usually takes „having the lived experience" of the woke garbage >>> turning aginst you, to get one of the indoctrinated to leave their >>> religion. And trying to do so doesn't belong on this forum, I just said >>> what I felt needed to be said. >>> >>> And with this, I'm back to lurking, I just wanted to clearly demonstrate >>> why such debates have no merit (clearly the opposite) on prog. lang. >>> forums/mailing list. >>> >>> Everyone, keep on making Pharo great. >>> >>> From: Steven Costiou <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 9:47 PM >>> To: Rauš Miloslav <[email protected]> >>> Cc: [email protected] >>> Subject: [Pharo-dev] Re: Metacello / Iceberg / GitHub master to main >>> renaming >>> >>> So far, no windmill complained about "woke incursions". >>> "Woke" is extremely clear vocabulary, only used by - let us get straight to >>> the point and not waste our time - modern nazis. >>> >>> So, perhaps you misused the word and should document yourself extensively >>> on the subject. >>> But your reply seems to point otherwise. >>> And *you* are the one feeling hurt because we want to recognize that >>> vocabulary has an impact on how we perceive and conceive things. >>> What was that again about cowardise and virtue? :) >>> >>> It is something to cope as we can with an annoying technical situation, it >>> is another thing to ask to not consider political views because they are >>> "woke" (which only purpose is to deny their legitimity without arguing). >>> Does the Pharo community support "anti-woke" argumentation? >>> This needs to be clear so that I can decide to leave the community or not. >>> >>> Or perhaps, that is a misunderstanding. >>> >>> Steven. >>> >>> Le 2021-07-20 20:12, [email protected] a écrit : >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> it's „highly probably" somewhere in the territorry of poor understanding, >>> but I wouldn't blame language (don't pretend to be obtuse when you want to >>> be sneakily subversive). >>> >>> I explicitly stated that fighting against _actual_ slavery is better done >>> by other means / elsewhere. Fighting against percieved shadows („extreme >>> right vocabulary"; or nomenclature that never hurt no-one) is just >>> divisive, and counter-productive on a programming language mailing-list. >>> >>> You can't erase history, and that some words that had negative connotations >>> in the past are used for new, entirely unrelated purposes today is no >>> wonder. >>> >>> As, of course, you can't be bothered to know, I'm member of one of those >>> nations called „Slavic" (.cz in my mail address). You know, you pretender, >>> nations who were enslaved so frequently that the word „slave" came from our >>> enslavement. Do I have a tendency to blame „heirs" of those who enslaved us >>> in the past ? Do I cringe every time the word slave is uttered ? Do you >>> know that some brainwashed individuals in our nation, in sync with todays >>> brainwashing, tried to push the narrative that we (our nation), were >>> colonizers as well ? >>> >>> NO. >>> >>> No-one is gonna make me feel like a victim (or an abuser) because of what >>> happened in the past, before my father was born, etc. >>> >>> Go fight you windmills, Don Q., I just hope the rest of the community won't >>> let themselves be pulled into it. >>> >>> M.R. >>> >>> From: Steven Costiou <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 4:08 PM >>> To: Pharo Development List <[email protected]> >>> Cc: Rauš Miloslav <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [Pharo-dev] Re: Metacello / Iceberg / GitHub master to main >>> renaming >>> >>> Le 2021-07-19 16:54, [email protected] a écrit : >>> >>> Maybe it's worth putting something in an faq - that we support the intent >>> of the master to main naming convention >>> >>> That's pretty counter-productive. It would be just empty virtue-signalling >>> response to an empty virtue-signalling gesture (that of MS/Github pushing >>> master->main transition). >>> >>> The change would bring absolutely nothing to no-one (except a lot of >>> needless work/friction; and an inroad for future woke incursions). Whomever >>> is having problem with slavery can fight modern-day slavery in ie. Africa / >>> China / etc or sex trafficking in their own country. >>> >>> I'm a bit sorry if I misinterpret what you say because of my poor >>> understanding of english. >>> But I would answer that whomever having a problem with fighting slavery in >>> general should leave the community. >>> Anyone also using and supporting extreme right vocabulary (e.g. "woke") >>> should leave the community. >>> If that's trolling, all the same. >>> >>> If I misinterpreted (non-native english speaker), I am sorry, and probably >>> you will agree with me and there is no need for dicussion. >>> >>> Steven. >>> >>> I'd prefer either nothing in the FAQ, or finite statement to the tune of >>> "no wokeness, we are about merit and not about empty gestures". >>> >>> Of course I expect cowardice & virtue-signalling to win in the end, but at >>> least I tried. >>> >>> M.R. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Tim Mackinnon <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Monday, July 19, 2021 1:14 PM >>> To: Pharo Development List <[email protected]> >>> Subject: [Pharo-dev] Re: Metacello / Iceberg / GitHub master to main >>> renaming >>> >>> Maybe it's worth putting something in an faq - that we support the intent >>> of the master to main naming convention, but that as we are a small >>> community trying to improve many aspects of 50 years of development, this >>> one had to unfortunately take a back seat for the moment while we simplify >>> other things to make this an easier change? >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> On 19 Jul 2021, at 12:26, stephane ducasse <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Sven >>> >>> From that perspective this master to main change will cost us a lot of >>> problem. >>> I decided to continue to configure all my repositories to use master >>> and I will do it for any repository that is related to pharo and that >>> people may use. Just to remove such kind of friction. >>> I would encourage people to do the same like that we do not have to think. >>> >>> S >>> >>> On 12 Jul 2021, at 14:32, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> For new GitHub projects the default branch is now main instead of master. >>> >>> There is however code in Metacello / Iceberg / ... that tries a number of >>> options if no branch is specified, but it is not yet aware of this change. >>> >>> Specifically: >>> >>> This does not work >>> >>> ./pharo reddit.image metacello install github://svenvc/Reddit >>> BaselineOfReddit >>> >>> instead you have to say >>> >>> ./pharo reddit.image metacello install github://svenvc/Reddit:main/ >>> BaselineOfReddit >>> >>> It took me half an hour to figure this out ;-) >>> >>> Sven
