levente can you keep such kind of mails for Squeak-dev? Or I will have to add you to my filter.
Stef >> Hi levente, >> >> after your mails some people sent me private mails because they did not feel >> well. They wondered why people were sending mails against pharo in this >> mailing-list while they do not send aggressive mails in squeak. >> I can understand them. Now I think that this is ok that you send the mails >> you want, >> you can send your feelings here, even if this is not that positive :). Kicks >> in the ass is always a feedback and we can make progress. >> I always appreciated your benchmarks and precise remarks. I liked (and I >> told you publicly) that you always replied to my mails about your changes in >> squeak. I can understand your frustration (I have been there for years >> trying to move squeak - again we did not do pharo for an ego problem - I >> cannot tell the number of students that looked at me like I was an idiot to >> use a system with all the colors and messy menus). We do pharo to build an >> ecosystem where people can expand, create cool ideas and make money to live >> from them. >> What is wrong with that? >> >> Now do not play pharo against squeak, it will not work on the mid term and >> this is not fun for everybody. I would love that Squeak builds its own real >> vision: for example been a real multimedia platform. We could have a lot of >> fun. Now I think that except a miracle this will not happen: after 10 years, >> squeak failed to go to the next level - I wanted everything and more Cairo, >> Zoomable interface, crazy ideas and all the rest - I was a big fan of Sophie >> (I can tell you that I was a bit fucked by some bulgarian people on that >> level trying to support Squeak and sophie there) and other impara tools. Now >> impara failed to make squeak sexy and them the center of the universe - They >> could have but may be they did not have the vision to be something else than >> building tools for alan. Anyway this is life. Now I wonder why you get >> stuck in Squeak you are welcome in Pharo. May be Squeak fits your vision and >> spirit but I do not understand what we are doing wrong so that you are mad >> against us. > > Let me respond to only those parts that weren't answered already: > I don't like the idea what some Pharo users and developers (yes, that's > including you too) are suggesting about Squeak. A few examples: > - Squeak has no vision > - Squeak should be a multimedia platform > - the purpose of Squeak is to support EToys > - Squeak should only be used for educational purposes > - Squeak is a mess (while Pharo is clean) > - Squeak is dead > etc. > IMHO Squeak is and should be "a modern, open source, full-featured > implementation of the powerful Smalltalk programming language and > environment". This implies that it should be good for everything what Pharo > is good for. Since I use it for software developement and I'm making a living > with it - just like many other people in the past (including some of you) and > present - it should be developer friendly too. > > Why "I got stuck in Squeak"? That's a long story, so let me tell you what I > like better in Squeak than Pharo instead: > - Squeak's update mechanism is a lot more stable. If you update your image > you have ~99% chance that it will work with your already loaded packages. I > can always use the bleeding edge version, because it's like a beta or rc. We > have some deployed images which were updated from 3.10.2 to the current 4.2 > (with Seaside and lot of other packages). > - When it's possible to do something in a backwards compatible way, then it's > usually done that way. > - The contribution process is simpler. > - The code changes appear on the mailing list. > - Colorful windows make it easy to find the one you're looking for. Most > windows are grey in Pharo even if you use a "Squeak theme". > - The UI feels faster. > - I use the toolbar with it's search tool all the time. The taskbar in Pharo > doesn't seem to be useful, but that's probably because I used to find windows > by colors. > > The list is not complete, but I guess the most important ones are here from a > user's POV. > > > Levente > >> >> Stef >>
