----- Original Message ----
> From: Ellery Newcomer <[email protected]>
> Well, as long as we're boycotting tango and stealing things from C#,
Modeling an API after C# is not stealing. There is very little chance you see
the actual code, so all you have to do is read and understand the API, then you
can make a similar API for Phobos. It is how I created the time structures in
Tango, modeled after C#.
Tango is quite different since the source is available, and even present in the
documentation (by clicking on a link, you can see the entire source file).
Therefore, Tango can claim at any point that you looked at their source, and
therefore started your project by copying it. To get around this, you have to
not use or view Tango. The Tango team's insistence on pursuing obviously
non-infringing cases, and their broad interpretation of "viewing the code" is
probably a good reason why companies will not use their code, even more than
the BSD license. Nobody wants to let a kid play in their yard when their
parents have a history of suing when their kid gets hurt.
Having viewed source or online docs that can contain source isn't enough to
prove copyright infringement. However, Walter's position is that if you don't
look at others' source, the opposition doesn't have a leg to stand on. While
this is true, *looking* at the other project's source does not mean you
infringed on it. In the time lib case, I believe SHOO is perfectly fine how he
mimicked the Tango API (it's not exactly mimicked, but close enough that Tango
devs think it's copying). But Walter has his position, and will not bring the
confrontation to a head, so those are the rules we have to live by.
Boost is acceptable to copy outright, because it has the same license. Tango
is not. If Tango changed it's license to boost (which I'm sad to say, I don't
believe it ever will), then all this becomes moot, we just copy and paste the
Tango copyright notice and call it a day.
Libraries where you cannot view the code are much easier to claim you didn't
view the code, because you can't view it!
I pledge from now on to have no dealings with Tango, I will never download or
view another piece of their documentation or source, as I intend to contribute
to Phobos. I will remove all Tango source from my computer. I would
contribute to both, but clearly the Tango team is not interested in being
lenient on obviously non-infringing cases, so I respectfully must remove myself
from that risk position.
And yeah, Lars, it is asinine. We all want to follow the wishes of
contributors, but give me a break! The Tango.time library is not an amazing
new algorithm. There's practically only one way to write time code that's
modeled after C#, and as far as I can tell, you have not brought forth any
tangible evidence that Tango's time library was copied. You say that the doc
generator isn't good enough to be able to do a clean-room implementation, but
have you looked at Tango.time? It's not that complex, and is pretty fully
documented. The doc generator does a good enough job to describe the API and
functionality, I should know because *I documented it*. Having rewritten most
of Tango.time, I don't see anything so far that looks like it was copied. I
feel bad for SHOO that he was caught in the middle of this, his lib looks well
written.
-Steve
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