>> Brad, I beg you, there's nothing anybody can say on this list that would
>> lead this to closure. Nothing. I believe that adding the things you
>> mentioned does indeed turn PHP into Java, just a messy Java, Java which is
>> worse at being Java than the real one is, and torn apart when compared
>> against it.
>
> Why do you think it would be messy.
Actually, given the changes I'm seeing in ZE2, and given our attempts at
building proper applications (though they are web applications) with PHP
(binarycloud), I have to agree with Brad: I don't see how they would be
messy.
I know this is a very dead horse, but I do think that PHP would benefit
greatly from just a few features:
explicit variable typing
case sensitivity (because it's confusing not to have it)
truly private methods
and a couple other things..
note though that _all_ of that can be added with minimal pain, except for
case sensitivity. (i.e. you can allow vars to be whatever if the user
doesn't preface the declaration with a type, etc).
>> Many others feel the same way. You don't think that way, and
Actually Zeev, everyone I talk to (and it's a freaking lot of people) likes
the idea of a "tad" more "beefyness" in PHP so long as it doesn't come at
much cost.
> I do believe that making a "fork" or patches for php is a bad thing. It would
> lead into a big mess. But at the same time i believe more strongly that cs is
> a
> good thing, types are a good thing and stronger oo support is a good thing. To
> me these are more important.
yes. and to many other people.
remember Zeev that most people don't even understand OO concepts - so adding
cool stuff for the serious people doesn't hurt the little guy writing
procedural code in HTML one bit.
>> There's one thing that is clear to me - there's no way to 'find a
>> solution', because we don't, at all, agree about the existence of the
That's bull. We could quite reasonably expect to see some things added to
the language that would not "turn it into a messy java". There are plenty of
simple additions that would benefit more sophisticated developers a great
deal.
I don't want to use Java. It sucks. I like PHP. I would like to see PHP gain
just a little more ground with OO, that's it.
>> fundamental gap in our perception of what PHP should be, and how it can
>> stay competitive.
>
> This is exactly true. I really feel that php/zend engine could be a alot more
> than you must think it can be.
I think I'm in the "it could be so much more" camp. I'm not hard-core about
this stuff, I don't think PHP will be "useless" without more advanced OO...
but I don't think it hurts anyone to add some more advanced features that
are not used by newbies. The problem with Java is that it forces developers
to code a certain way: PHP is good precisely because it _doesn't_. You can
improve PHP without sacrificing flexibility.
> The thing is the stuff that I/many people have in mind won't harm php as it
> is, its just that some people don't want these new features.
>
> Types:
> <?
> string $var;
> int $int;
In fact, you could even have:
$var = "crap"; // standard "floating type"
or
string $var = "123";
> $ret = doSomething($var2, $var2);
>
> function doSomething(string $str, int $int)
> {
yep.
that could be _optional_ and not change a single line of syntax in existing
code bases.
> }
> ?>
> OO Support:
>
> interface thread
> {
> function run();
> }
>
> class MyClass implements thread
> {
> function run()
> {
> yeahRight();
> }
I don't see the need here..
> function setSomething(string $test)
> {
> $this->something = $test;
> }
>
> opperator +(MyClass $class)
> {
> $this->something = $class->something;
> }
>
> opperator +(MyOtherClass $class)
> {
> $this->something = $class->otherSomething;
> }
> }
Sitto.
> class MyOtherClass extends MyClass
> {
> }
yes :)
> don't forget about the public private
> Case Sensitive:
> I know the reasons for and against this and i agree with both of them. But I
> would rather see CS.
Ditto. If there's a time to do this it's now.
> php should get complicated but I do, I think that making these kinda changes
I think we can add some of the basic necessities without impacting the
complexity of the lauguage, see above.
> Again the point of this email isn't to change authors/founders minds its just
> my point of view.
Mine is.
I'd love to see case sensitivity, multiple inheritance, private methods, and
optional typed variables. Except case sensitivity, all of those features can
be implemented with ZERO impact on existing users and code.
:)
_alex
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