tedd wrote:
At 2:06 PM -0400 5/15/09, Tom Worster wrote:
for one thing, a table is a great way of representing relations
(http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Relation.html). data tables are the canonical example but very often a form's structure is a relation, e.g. between labels
and input fields, or between multiple input fields.

some of the best designed and behaving web sites i know use tables in ways
that a list apart would consider heathen.

Heresy!  :-)

However, there are occasions such as in a calendar where not using a table would be more than difficult. I haven't received a decree yet as to IF that would be considered column data or not.

I'm gonna differ on this one, when you simply float each calender item to the left you're pretty much done, in many cases i find it easier than tables.

I have, and continue to use, tables for forms. The main reason given for not using tables is because they are not considered accessible by those with disabilities. However, people with disabilities generally don't have any problems with forms if the forms are properly labeled. So, I think that's acceptable, but am sure heathen in css terms.

But whenever/wherever I can, I try to avoid using tables -- especially in layouts.

IMHO the whole css vs table based layouts is a bit pointless, fact is that as web developers and designers we're struggling to fulfil clients needs, designers aesthetic demands and end user functionality using languages that really aren't cut out for the job.

Sure we can manage to do and hack through things, but the second you move away from a conventional style document with some hyper links you've moved outside of the scope of html. So regardless of how we do it, we're fitting square technologies in to round holes.

In fact the most fitting use of (x)HTML and CSS I've ever seen are the RFCs and Specifications on w3c.org - styled usable "documents" - not what many term as a website, and certainly not a flashy zippy glossy ecommerce store with a tonne of effects and even more functionality.

It's a bit like creating a full glossy magazine in ms "paint" I guess.

so ultimately i guess it's a case of 3 cheers and a round of applause for anybody who's thus far managed to create a website that works and that the client likes!

regards :)

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