Robert Cummings wrote:
Paul M Foster wrote:
On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 09:30:18AM -0700, Kyle Terry wrote:
I don't mean to be the thread spirit killer, but I think another
would be better for this. Such as Python.
PHP desktop apps might be fun to hack around with, but I wouldn't
use it for
a production application.
I've coded a bit in Python, and parts of it really annoy me. I much
prefer PHP, as it's more C-ish.
Why wouldn't you use PHP for production applications?
Why wouldnt you? Besides the design of PHP generally being completely
against it? PHP is not designed to be run continuously in
infinite-loop (while true) scenarios...
see the history of php development and use
Please explain the purpose of the php-cli binary?
it's threading support is poor and it's memory
What does threading support have to do with running something in an
infinite loop? What if I don't need threads?
handing and library are geared almost exclusively towards
I dunno, I've written amultitude of shell/cron scripts in PHP that
leverage the codebase already written for the web application.
i wasnt arguing against cron-scripts, these are 'run-once' sort of
things which php handles well. they dont run for minutes let alone hours.
I have daemons in PHP that have been running for months without stop.
They are using the infinite-loop mechanism you purport to be not
designed for continuous long-term use. I have an mplayer wrapper script
that has been running for the past 3 months non-stop... it's purpose is
to shuffle my kids shows, reload a play list when it changes, allow
queueing of shows, handle random selection of shows based on tags and
weighting, remember what episode in a series was last played and where
the timestamp currently rests... all this without being shut down.
for the reasons detailed in this post. using web-oriented php as a
desktop programming language is a magnitude of dumb perhaps only
eclipsed by the smarty programming language
If you want to compile it, or use it in a .NET/Java context... fine
(see phc, etc.). The language itself can handle it, but the standard
Narrow mindedness won't earn you any brownie points from me.
In anycase other languages have much better support of desktop and
network programming, entire libraries and communities have been
developed around it. Preferably use Python/Java/etc. though C has its
There's always other languages... there's always another language better
at doing something... so what? There was Perl before PHP, Perl was
undoubtedly better than PHP for web applications at one point... yet I
would argue that has changed... why? Because the naysayers were ignored.
As I've said before, ones place in the sun can't be identified if one
never tries sitting in the sun. It's hard to grasp the proverbial
brass ring if you never extend your reach.
There are good reasons why php isnt "in the sun" (ie. used for desktop
programming), as i've listed. If you'd care to learn a few other
languages the reasons would be immediately obvious, python can be learnt
in a few days - try it.
The standard PHP execution model is geared almost exclusively towards
web-used (though crons etc. are reasonable)... that is, to sit in/with a
server and handle requests... to operate over, at maximum, "insane"
lifespans of 30 seconds.
Please point me to this "standard"-- I would like to have a gander at it.
There are languages designed to be used for desktop programming, and for
various tasks in general. The smart thing would be to use them. PHP may
be a hammer, but every problem is not a nail.
Languages were designed to be programmed, what they are programmed to do
is entirely up to the programmer.
Use the tools designed for the job.
Then how would we find new uses for the tools? Just because there's only
one known use for a tool, doesn't exclude it for consideration for new
uses. There's always serendipity too.
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