On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 09:24 +1000, Clancy wrote: > On Wed, 5 Aug 2009 09:25:20 -0400, phps...@gmail.com (Bastien Koert) wrote: > > >On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:02 AM, Ashley Sheridan<a...@ashleysheridan.co.uk> > >wrote: > >> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 21:49 +1000, Clancy wrote: > >>> Thank you to all of you who have commented on this query. > >>> > >>> On the subject of comments, I feel that Larry Garfield settled this query > >>> by pointing out > >>> that halving the size of a particular document gave a barely noticeable > >>> increase in speed. > >>> Paul Foster pointed out the problem of maintenance, but if, as I do, you > >>> do your > >>> development in-house, and then upload the working copies of the program, > >>> it would be > >>> possible to strip out comments when you upload it. If you were really > >>> paranoid, this could > >>> have the advantage that if somebody managed to steal your code from the > >>> server it would be > >>> that much harder for them to understand. On the other hand the process of > >>> stripping out > >>> the comments could potentially introduce new bugs, and I think this > >>> consideration would > >>> outweigh anything else. > >>> > >>> I have recently come to the conclusion that I should never consider > >>> anything completed > >>> until I have analysed the HTML code for an actual page. It is amazing how > >>> badly mangled > >>> tables and the like can be without producing any visible effect on the > >>> page, and on > >>> several occasions I have found PHP error messages which were mixed up > >>> with the HTML in > >>> such a way that they were not displayed at all. On at least one occasion > >>> this gave me the > >>> clue to an otherwise baffling bug. > >>> > >>> I have also discovered that the process of analysing the HTML is made > >>> substantially > >>> simpler by inserting HTML comments into the output; e.g. instead of > >>> > >>> Echo '</td></tr></table></td></tr></table>'; > >>> write > >>> ?> > >>> </td></tr></table> > >>> <!-End of table 2 ' > >>> > >>> </td></tr></table> > >>> <!-End of table 1 ' > >>> > >>> Unfortunately, for HTML readability, it is highly desirable not to indent > >>> the code, and if > >>> you are trying to have nicely indented braces, this makes the PHP code > >>> that much harder to > >>> interpret. > >>> > >>> And on the question of functions there is some virtue (primarily from the > >>> point of view of > >>> maintenance) in not having individual files too large, so while it seems > >>> to be the general > >>> consensus that splitting up functions into groups to give smaller files > >>> will probably slow > >>> things down a bit, if they can be grouped into sets which are only loaded > >>> in particular > >>> circumstances this would be worth doing. > >>> > >>> > >> Nested tables are the devils playthings! > > I must be the devil, then. I enjoy playing with them. And if they're done > right they > seem to work on every system I have tried them on. Granted Dreamweaver > design mode gets > its knickers in a knot if you nest them more than about 4 deep. > > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Ash > >> http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk > >> > >> > >> -- > >> PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) > >> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php > >> > >> > > > >I would agree there...we have an app that allows users to create forms > >dynamically with a left and right panel section along with some full > >width plug-in. At a minimum this is built with three nested tables. > >Here's the really rotten part, the VP (original dev for the display > >code) screwed a table close up somewhere. A bug they found literally > >minutes before it when to prod at a client site, instead of giving me > >15 minutes to trace it down, they wrapped the entire table structure > >in another table to make it look pretty. > > Clearly he didn't verify the HTML before he released the original version. ;-) > > > >Drives me mental as it produces lots a visual screw up when a certain > >pattern in the form elements is created > > That's the joy of HTML errors - often the output will appear normal until you > make some > minor, and apparently irrelevant, change, when it all goes haywire. > > That's not the only point. If you're on a slow connection you'll notice the issue. Some browsers only start displaying the page once all the layout data has been loaded. I've seen some sites with nesting levels of 7 tables deep sometimes, and that's just a mess. I'm also unsure how text/speech/Braille browsers deal with complex table sites too.
And tables shouldn't be used for layout, use CSS instead!... Thanks, Ash http://www.ashleysheridan.co.uk -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
