On 17 Jul 2002 at 12:55, Miguel Cruz wrote:

> On Wed, 17 Jul 2002, Martin Clifford wrote:
> > I'd like to get everyone's input on Jobs and Certs.  I know there
> > are a couple Certifications for web developers out there, such as
> > the CIW and CWP certifications.
> I don't know if this is what you want to hear, but I can tell you that
> as a rule, I don't hire people who advertise certifications on their
> resume.
> I've found that they correlate pretty strongly with incompetence, to
> the point where nothing saves me more time when filtering through
> resumes than first throwing away the ones covered with acroyms
> starting with C or MC.
> People who have the skills, demonstrate it through their work
> experience, walking through their sample code with me, and their
> ability to explain how they would perform a task. People who trumpet
> certifications overwhelmingly seem to be people who were unable to
> advance their careers based on the strength of their skills, and so
> chose to resort to a paper method instead. I'm not saying anything
> about you here, just suggesting that you consider alternate means of
> impressing employers.

:) ... this is a laugh. 

There must be one Miguel for 10,000 other managers. What Miguel said above is what any 
rational, competent manager would do. I cannot tell you how many times I send my 
resume but I put a link to 
my code (they can download entire apps so they can see not only snippets but how I 
organize or disorganize my code). No one, not one, has ever bothered to look at my 
code and questioned me. I 
interviewed with Jeffrey Friedl of regex fame and even he did not look at my code 
(although when I said I did not know something he laughed and said he did not know 
either, "that's why we have 
reference books").

I think getting the CERTS is not bad. Certainly the smart person will do as Miguel 
suggests, but I think he's in the VAST minority. I know a guy who has a consulting 
firm. It's a M$ shop. They BLAST 
their M$ certs everywhere. The software business is too new imho. Most people who 
should know better will be bamboolzed by CERTS. 

One manager sent out an email to everyone who responded to an ad. He offered general 
suggestions to everyone. I thought that was a dern good thing. He suggested people 
send Brainbench exam 
results. I'm sure certs would have helped as well. Even though this guy was "nice" I 
doubt he could get around code. imho, there are just far, far too few people who can 
judge someone by their code. I 
say get the certs. Personally, I could never work for someone who needed that so I 
don't bother, but if you want a job, I can't see that it hurts AT ALL.

Heck, I'm gonna rant if I keep going ... ever have someone ask you if you know FTP :) 
... like a smart person could not show another smart person about that in 15 minutes. 
It's just amazing  what 
passes for competence in the IT world.  I had a boss who I swear sincerely said he 
could "double click a mouse". The guy was serious. I did not last at that job :)


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