Eeeeek! Bc I need to do that too! On Mon, Aug 12, 2024, 14:42 Russell Senior <[email protected]> wrote:
> Just to toss in my 2¢ re Google Workspace, I am involved with a > not-for-profit (not personaltelco, fwiw) that uses google services a > lot. When we were trying to preserve the groups files, I tried to make > a takeout of them to have local copies in case of, you know, google > meltdown. It was impressively difficult to do across users' shared > files, despite being an admin for the organization. Vendor Lock-in > minus minus. > > -- > Russell Senior > [email protected] > > On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 12:51 PM FOSS Supporter <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Convenience isnt consequence free. For now you get to choose your own > adventure. Security cannot exist without some degree of privacy. Why is the > service free or below cost? You can expect those expenses to appear in many > forms for you down the road. Like could your health care, life or car > insurance rates adjust after you joined group A or you mentioned topic B? > Ask who might value your information more than you? > > > > > > > > -Sent from an insecure iphone out of convenience and limited options > available for mobile. Nobody is perfect or pure, but we should be > supportive of long term results & perspectives to strive for. > > > > Aug 12, 2024 at 10:57 by [email protected]: > > > > > Yes, but this is also where the concept of free market competition > comes into play. Any company offering a service in a given space will > compete to provide the best service in that space. > > > > > > As a consumer, you compare and contrast the different services based > on a number of metrics (Price, quality, uptime, long term suppport). You > also take into consideration that just because a service advertises a given > feature, doesn't mean it actually works as advertised. > > > > > > I keep harping on the trust concept, but only because I think it is a > major factor in choosing a platform. If a Vendor provides a service with > certain expectations, the Consumer will expect them to meet those > expectations. If the Vendor fails to meet those expectations, the Consumer > writes a bad review and looks for a new Vendor providing the same service. > LTS (how long a feature will be available), and Open Standards (portability > of data generated/stored on the service) are 2 features everyone should be > taking into consideration. > > > > > > Services that implement Open Standards are nice because if you run > into problems with that service, your data may be compatible with other > systems. e.g. The GPG keys created for my Proton Mail account can be > exported from the web interface, and imported using KGPG. This means that I > can encrypt/decrypt data in KDE using the same keys as my email. AND, if > for some reason I decide I don't like Proton any more, I can cancel my > subscription and continue using my keys through a different email service. > Open Standards :) > > > -Ben > > > > > > > > > On Monday, August 12th, 2024 at 8:32 AM, mo <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > >> Those def not the kind of mushrooms I prefer 😂. > > >> > > >> Wouldn't all externally hosted services suffer a likewise > vulnerability? > > >> Granted are worse than others, albeit idk who is worse. I barely > tried any > > >> of them. I miss self hosting; I actually enjoyed sysadmin life aka > > >> troubleshooting. > > >> > > >> On Mon, Aug 12, 2024, 08:22 Ted Mittelstaedt [email protected] > wrote: > > >> > > >> > To be fair the 2003 version of Word didn't have all the Nanny State > > >> > spyware-report-to-Microsoft stuff in it the current versions do. > > >> > > > >> > "The fact that GW provides the requested features today is moot, > because > > >> > tomorrow those features could be removed or changed rendering your > > >> > conclusion incorrect." > > >> > > > >> > Yes this is correct - we have an Expense Report spreadsheet at work > that > > >> > uses a complicated macro that someone in the IT department created > so that > > >> > users can just type in the source and destination city in their > travel and > > >> > have the mileage calculated. It uses a http call to Google to > obtain the > > >> > mileage. > > >> > > > >> > Well 8 months ago - Google made a change to the URL - a very slight > one - > > >> > whereupon the expense report spreadsheet broke, causing much > hair-pulling > > >> > and consternation. > > >> > > > >> > It took me around 6 hours to figure out what that change was and > explain > > >> > it to the IT department tech who wrote the macro so he could fix the > > >> > sheet. Needless to say there was no documentation on the Google > website > > >> > explaining why they made the change, and even more annoying the > "old style" > > >> > URL still worked perfectly - when typed into a web browser - thus > greatly > > >> > complicating troubleshooting by misdirecting me down innumerable > > >> > rabbit-holes. > > >> > > > >> > That sheet also breaks when the credit card number on file with > Google > > >> > declines - which happens every 6 months or so when the purchasing > > >> > department changes the card due to someone having stolen the number > and not > > >> > telling us they changed it. Yet Google never charges the card > because our > > >> > usage of the API is below the minimum threshold. > > >> > > > >> > The whole system Google has setup for it's public APIs is completely > > >> > ass-backwards. And they get away with it because for 90% of the > lower > > >> > volume customers that use it, the APIs are free. And you can bet > Google > > >> > tells their high-volume spammer..I mean users... that they are > making > > >> > changes before they do. But the rest of their "customers" are out > with the > > >> > garbage - they are mushrooms, kept in the dark and fed BS. > > >> > > > >> > Ted > > >> > > > >> > -----Original Message----- > > >> > From: PLUG [email protected] On Behalf Of Ben Koenig > > >> > Sent: Friday, August 9, 2024 9:17 AM > > >> > To: Portland Linux/Unix Group [email protected] > > >> > Subject: Re: [PLUG] email hosting - who? > > >> > > > >> > Obligatory XKCD 743: > > >> > https://xkcd.com/743 > > >> > > > >> > A lot of people use "privacy" as a shorthand way to reference the > larger > > >> > issue of trust when it comes to companies like Google. > > >> > > > >> > Yes, GW does provide a lot of features that may fall perfectly in > line > > >> > with what users want. But there is more to infrastructure than just > "does > > >> > it have feature X?" > > >> > > > >> > Google in general has shown that it is not reliable from an > infrastructure > > >> > standpoint. They have a tendency to kill projects, and those > projects that > > >> > are not killed will someday change and end users often have no say > in the > > >> > matter. The fact that GW provides the requested features today is > moot, > > >> > because tomorrow those features could be removed or changed > rendering your > > >> > conclusion incorrect. > > >> > > > >> > Rational people generally avoid Google because they trusted them in > the > > >> > past, got burned and learned from the experience. IIRC there was a > > >> > discussion very similar to this on G+.... let me get you a link... > ;) > > >> > > > >> > -Ben > > >> > > > >> > On Thursday, August 8th, 2024 at 8:49 AM, mo [email protected] > wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > Not really. > > >> > > > > >> > > Privacy? Considering the insane amount everyone puts on social > media, > > >> > > what privacy is there? Plus anything other self hosted = someone > has > > >> > > your data. > > >> > > > > >> > > Market diversity? Idk what that one means precisely. > > >> > > > > >> > > GW not Gmail. So not free. > > >> > > > > >> > > 144% for 1000% more services than mere email host. > > >> > > > > >> > > So nope, don't understand even slightly why rational ppl would not > > >> > > choose GW in this scenario. But I appreciate the effort > regardless. > > >> > > > > >> > > On Thu, Aug 8, 2024, 07:29 Tomas Kuchta > [email protected] > > >> > > > > >> > > wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > Privacy, market diversity, not having all eggs in one basket, > gmail > > >> > > > is free anyway, .... and 12*6=72 that happens to be 144% of 50 > > >> > > > > > >> > > > I hope that gives you some idea what others may or may not think > > >> > > > about when chosing a service provider. > > >> > > > > > >> > > > Tomas > > >> > > > > > >> > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2024, 11:36 mo [email protected] wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > If $50/yr, why not just use Google Workspace? $6/mo for all > their > > >> > > > > services. > > >> > > > > I'm asking bc I want the cons of using GW. > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Wed, Aug 7, 2024, 01:18 Tomas Kuchta > > >> > > > > [email protected] > > >> > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > ++ for fastmail email hosting. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Works great with(out) own domain for $50 per year. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > The only feature I am missing - their calendar foes not > export > > >> > > > > > birthday calendar over IMAP. > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > -T > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Tue, Aug 6, 2024, 16:13 Courtney Rosenthal > [email protected] > > >> > > > > > wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Yeah, been there, done that. > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > When I quit email self-hosting I went to fastmail.com. It > > >> > > > > > > works out to > > >> > > > > > > $50 per mailbox per year. I have a bunch of domains > there. I > > >> > > > > > > setup aliases in those domains that forward into one of > two > > >> > > > > > > mailboxes. So it's costing me about $100/yr for that and > I'm > > >> > > > > > > super satisfied. > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > They won't do DNS though. I'm using cloudns.net and I'm > very > > >> > > > > > > satisfied with them. I've had to use their support a few > times > > >> > > > > > > (for their monitoring service) and they've been super > > >> > > > > > > responsive -- including implementing a feature request I > made. > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On 8/6/24 14:34, Michael Rasmussen wrote: > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I'm winding down my self-hosted web space. Part of this > is > > >> > > > > > > > finding a place to host jamhome.us - or more > accurately the > > >> > > > > > > > email portion. > > >> > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Can you recommend a place that would do that? They can > host > > >> > > > > > > > the domain name too. > > >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > -- > > >> > > > > > > Courtney Rosenthal / [email protected] / > www.crosenthal.com > > >> > > >
