saya kira karena pikiran manusia tidak bisa lepas dari kebendaan, maka deskripsi surga-neraka disesuaikan dengan yg bisa dipahami manusia,
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, RG Nur Rahmat wrote: > > Kalau ditanya pendapat saya yg beragama Islam, jawaban saya Syurga itu yah memang > seperti itu, begitu juga neraka yang semua gambarannya ada di Al-Qur'an selain tidak > ada ayat-ayat yg menyatakan keadaan yang lain, Al-Qur'an juga berlaku sampai akhir > zaman karena tidak ada perubahan sedikit pun dari sejak diturunkannya. > > Point-point saya begini, > Kita nanti akan dibangkitkan dengan tubuh yang sekarang ini > setiap manusia akan diadili, yang timbangan dosanya lebih besar dari pahala akan > masuk neraka > Neraka selalu digambarkan dengan api yang menyala-nyala > yang pahalanya lebih banyak dari dosa akan masuk syurga > Nabi Adam dan Siti Hawa pernah tinggal di syurga lalu diusir karena memakan buah > Khuldi. > Kalau mempertimbangkan bukti-bukti dari al-Qur'an diatas memang Surga dan Neraka > seperti itulah keadaannya bukan cuma metafora. > > rm_danardono <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Ya, memang, seperti juga Kitab Taurat yang menggunakan bahasa Ibrani, > bahasanya sangat berbunga, dan penuh metafora. Ini adalah untuk > menggambarkan bagaimana sempurnanya keadaan surgawi, tentu dengan > imaginasi masa lalu. Baik bangsa Arab dizaman turunnya Kuran maupun > bangsa Ibrani dimasa turunnya Taurat, 4000 tahun yang silam, adalah > bangsa nomad dan penggembala, jadi digunakan penggambaran yang mereka > dapat mengerti. > > Salam > > RM D H > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], RG Nur Rahmat > wrote: > > > > > > rm_danardono wrote: > > > > >>>>>The above two Sayings (Hadiths) of our beloved Prophet > Muhammad > > peace be upon him tell us that: > > > > > 1- The believing wives of the believing husbands will be as > > beautiful as the maidens or houris in Heaven, and they will be > large- > > eyed maidens for their husbands<<<<< > > > > ---->Gak ada yang matanya sipit? > > ====> Mana saya tahu, kan "The maidens for the man will be of equal > age and are never touched or seen by any man or jinn. " Tapi, kalau > menurut pendapat saya, yang matanya sipit bisa saja matanya besar, > yang kurang menarik itu yang matanya kecil, sebab kalau gak salah > saya pernah dikirimi e-mail, tentang operasi mata seorang perempuan > yang matanya ingin dibesarkan. Jadi, perempuan ini merasa gak cantik > kalau matanya kecil. apakah itu perasaan wanita secara umum, saya gak > tahu. > > > > > > >>>> 2- The man can choose from any maidens he desires. > > > > > > ----> Ini dia, jadi lebih sedap daripada dibumi, apalagi kalau > > miskin, mana yang mau jadi istri? Ada uang abang sayang, gak ada > uang > > abang melayang... > > > > > > ====> Begitulah, di surga semuanya sempurna. > > > > > > >>>> 3- The single believing men and women who get admitted to > > Paradise can marry and live happily in Paradise since there will > > be "husbands" and "wives". See Noble Verses 52:20 and 44:54 and the > > comments/analysis about them above. > > > > ------> jadi yang masih single dibumi, gak usah kawatir, kawin aja > > nanti setelah meninggal...tapi? gak bnisa punya anak dong? > > > > ===> untuk apa punya anak, wong kita sudah hidup untuk selama- > lamanya, jadi gak perlu lagi reproduksi. Lagipula, kita akan > berkumpul dgn anak-anak kita, itu kalau nanti tempat akhiratnya sama. > > > > > > >>>>> 4- A man can have wives and maidens. A woman can have only > one > > husband. The maidens for the man will be of equal age and are never > > touched or seen by any man or jinn. > > > > Tuhhh, diurga juga wanita hanya boleh satu laki2. Oh mama mia, jinn > > tu kayak apa ya? Kok ikut2 main? Disentuh jinn? Tak usah ya? > > > > > > ===> Ya begitulah, belum ada jawaban yg saintifik ttg ini, tapi > sejauh ini, gak penting utk diributin, wong kesananya saja susah. > > > > Let us look at the following Noble Verses from the Noble Quran: > > > > > "...Of the Gardens will be Near....In them will be (Maidens), > > chaste, restraining their glances, whom no Man or Jinn before them > > has touched. (The Noble Quran, 55:54, 56)" > > > > Syukurlah, kalau jinn gak boleh ikut2 nyolek isteri. > > > > ===> Ya,amin. JanjiNya selalu benar, tidak lambat tidak juga > terlalu awal. > > > > > > > > RMDH > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Ambon" wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "RG Nur Rahmat" > > > To: > > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 3:28 AM > > > Subject: Re: Membela tp merendahkan Islam Re: [ppiindia] A Nizami > > Re: > > > Mengharamkan Poligami dan Menghalalkan Perzinahan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Women and Maidens in Heaven according to Islam. Will women have > > > > companions? > > > > > > > Certainly, they need companionship of me. Anyone who you want to > > join? > > > Please send application soonest!. > > > > > > > > > > > Does Paradise in Islam really have Homosexuality in it? > > > > > > > > The sections of this article are: > > > > > > > > 1- Does Paradise in Islam really have Homosexuality in it? > > > > 2- Lesbians in Paradise? Will a believing single woman have a > > male or > > > > female > > > > spouse in Paradise? > > > > 3- So what about the married (here on earth) believing men and > > women? > > > > 4- In Paradise everyone (men and women) will live happily. > > > > 5- How come women in Islam can't have multiple husbands if they > > are equal > > > > to men? > > > > 6- Further additions and explanations from Muslims. > > > > > > > > It has come to my attention that a group of the > > Christian "Answering > > > > Islam" team are trying to spread the false idea that the > Islamic > > Paradise > > > > will have Lesbians in it. They first tried to show that when > > Allah > > > > Almighty uses the word "Righteous" for the Muslims, He is > > referring to > > > > both men and women, which is absolutely correct. Let us look at > > the > > > > following Noble Verses: > > > > > > > > "While he was standing in prayer in the chamber, the angels > > called unto > > > > him: 'God doth give thee glad tidings of Yahya, witnessing the > > truth of a > > > > Word from God, and (be besides) noble, chaste, and a prophet,- > of > > the > > > > (goodly) company of the righteous.' (The Noble Quran, 3:39)" > > > > > > > > "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And > > he shall > > > > be (of the company) of the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 3:46)" > > > > > > > > "They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin what is > right, > > and > > > > forbid what is wrong; and they hasten (in emulation) in (all) > > good works: > > > > They are in the ranks of the righteous. (The Noble Quran, > 3:114)" > > > > > > > > "The life of this world is alluring to those who reject faith, > > and they > > > > scoff at those who believe. But the righteous will be above > them > > on the > > > > Day of Resurrection; for God bestows His abundance without > > measure on whom > > > > He will. (The Noble Quran, 2:212)" > > > > > > > > "Recite to them the truth of the story of the two sons of Adam. > > Behold! > > > > they each presented a sacrifice (to God): It was accepted from > > one, but > > > > not from the other. Said the latter: 'Be sure I will slay > > thee.' 'Surely,' > > > > said the former, "God doth accept of the sacrifice of those who > > are > > > > righteous.' (The Noble Quran, 5:27)" > > > > > > > > "What is the life of this world but play and amusement? But > best > > is the > > > > home in the hereafter, for those who are righteous. Will ye not > > then > > > > understand? (The Noble Quran, 6:32)" > > > > > > > > "The day We shall gather the righteous to (God) Most Gracious, > > like a band > > > > presented before a king for honours, (The Noble Quran, 19:85)" > > > > > > > > "Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given > to > > Moses): > > > > My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth. (The Noble > > Quran, > > > > 21:105)" > > > > > > > > The above Noble Verses are crystal clear about the > > word "righteous" > > > > referring to both men and women. The Paradise and Great Reward > > that Allah > > > > Almighty promised and prepared for the "righteous" is indeed > > meant for > > > > both men and women. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lesbians in Paradise? Will a believing single woman have a male > > or female > > > > spouse in Paradise? > > > > > > > > This is the section where the Christian "Answering Islam" team > is > > clearly > > > > wrong in. They claim that since Allah Almighty called both men > > and women > > > > "righteous" in the Noble Verses above, and promised them to be > > joined > > > > together as "companions" as shown Noble Verses below, and > didn't > > specify > > > > that men will be joined with women only, then He the Almighty > > meant that > > > > He will mix both genders together and allow them to have sexual > > > > relationships together as Gays and Lesbians. This conclusion > > from that > > > > bogus team is plain dumb! No woman will be a Lesbian, and no > man > > will be > > > > a Gay in Paradise. Let us look at the following Noble Verses > > that the > > > > Christian "Answering Islam" team had used: > > > > > > > > "Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them. Youths > > (handsome) as > > > > Pearls well-guarded. (The Noble Quran, 52:24)" "...Youths > > (handsome)..." > > > > is written in Arabic as "gilma-nun llahum". Gilma-nun literally > > means > > > > young males. This Noble Verse is talking about young male > > servants whom > > > > Allah Almighty Created for the service of the Believers in > > Paradise. > > > > > > > > "Round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual (freshness), > > (The > > > > Noble Quran, 56:17)" "...youths of..." is written in Arabic > this > > time as > > > > "wil-daa-nun", which literally means young boys. This Noble > > Verse is > > > > again talking about young male servants whom Allah Almighty > > Created for > > > > the service of the Believers in Paradise. > > > > > > > > "And round about them will (serve) youths of perpetual > > (freshness): If > > > > thou seest them, thou wouldst think them scattered Pearls. (The > > Noble > > > > Quran, 76:19)" "youths of..." uses the same exact word in Noble > > Verse > > > > 56:17. > > > > > > > > "And for such as had entertained the fear of standing before > > their Lord's > > > > (tribunal) and had restrained (their) soul from lower desires, > > Their abode > > > > will be the Garden. (The Noble Quran, 79:40-41)" "...Their > abode > > will be > > > > the Garden." is written in Arabic as "fa-inna al-jannata hiya > al- > > ma'wa". > > > > This is a correct translation. However, it doesn't show > anywhere > > of same > > > > genders having sex with each others. > > > > > > > > "They will recline (with ease) on Thrones (of dignity) arranged > > in ranks; > > > > and We shall join them to Companions, with beautiful big and > > lustrous > > > > eyes. (The Noble Quran, 52:20)" "We shall join them to > > Companions..." is > > > > written in Arabic as "wa-zawwaj-naahum bi-hoori-aayn". The > > English > > > > translation is not quite accurate for this Noble Verse. The > > Arabic word > > > > "wa-zawwaj-naahum" means to have them marry or get > > married. "join them > > > > to Companions" is not really accurate, because it doesn't > > necessarily mean > > > > that they would get married if they were "Companions". > > > > > > > > Very Important Note: It is very important to know that the > Arabic > > Noble > > > > Quran is referring to marriage in this Noble Verse, because > > marriage in > > > > Islam is NOT FOR THE SAME GENDERS. Males can not marry males in > > Islam. > > > > The same applies for females. So when Allah Almighty used the > > word > > > > "Wa-Zawwaj-naahum", which is derived from the Arabic > word "zawaaj > > > > (marriage)", He the Almighty clearly meant to enjoin males and > > females > > > > into marriage, and not to mix the males and females together > and > > have them > > > > pick and choose their sexual mates, even if they were the same > > gender. > > > > Let us look at Noble Verse 44:54 "Moreover, We shall Join them > to > > > > Companions With beautiful, big, And lustrous eyes." The same > > word for > > > > "...join them to Companions..." is used in Noble Verse 52:20. > > > > > > > > As for those whom the believers would marry, "...With > beautiful, > > big, And > > > > lustrous eyes...", it is written in Arabic as "bi hoori-aayn". > > This same > > > > word was used for Jesus' (peace be upon him) disciples (al- > > hawariyyun as > > > > plural......hur or huri or houri as singular), which both (al- > > hawariyyun) > > > > and (hoori-aayn) are both derived from the Arabic word "hoor" > > or "howr", > > > > or "hur". > > > > > > > > The following comment regarding Noble Verses 52:20 and 44:54 > was > > taken > > > > from the foot notes of the Noble Quran that was translated by > > Minister > > > > (Sheikh) Abdullah Yusuf Ali; may Allah Almighty rest his soul > and > > make > > > > Paradise his ultimate destiny: "Hur implies the following > ideas: > > (1) > > > > purity; possibly the word Hawariyun, as applied to the first > > Disciples of > > > > Jesus, is connected with this root; (2) beauty, especially of > > eyes, where > > > > the intense white of the eyeballs stands out against the > intense > > black of > > > > the pupil, thus giving the appearance of lustre, and intense > > feeling: as > > > > opposed to dullness or want of expression; and (3) truth and > good > > will." > > > > > > > > The word "hur" which Jesus' male disciples and the companions > of > > believers > > > > in Paradise were given names that were derived from it quite > > clearly is > > > > referring to both males and females. This means that the > winners > > of > > > > Paradise will have their suitable gender of "hoori-aayn" > > depending on > > > > their gender. > > > > > > > > So when Allah Almighty promised companions to the believers in > > Paradise, > > > > He quite clearly and obviously promised female companions for > the > > males > > > > and male companions for the females. > > > > > > > > Important Note: In Arabic, plurals and pronouns are derived > from > > root > > > > words. In the case of "Quran" for instance as in "Noble Quran", > > it is > > > > derived from the root word "Iqra" which means read. "Qara" > > means "past of > > > > read", "Quran" means "The read". It could also mean "The > > Revealed" since > > > > the word "Qara" could also mean "Read to him/her" as in "Qara > > alaihi or > > > > Qara lahu", which means "Read to him". > > > > > > > > Another example to take is "Kitab" which means "Book". It is > > derived from > > > > the root word "yaktub" which means "write". "kitaba" > > means "writing". > > > > "kataba" means "wrote". So "kitab" means the "The written". > > > > > > > > In the case of the word "hawariyyun", which is the word Allah > > Almighty > > > > called Jesus' disciples peace be upon them, it is derived from > > the root > > > > word "hur". So in the case of Jesus' disciples peace be upon > > them, Allah > > > > Almighty respected them by calling them "hawariyyun", which is > > plural of > > > > "huri", which is derived from the root word "hur" which means a > > very > > > > beautiful human-creation of Allah Almighty. So the word "hur" > > or "huri" > > > > in the Noble Quran and Arabic can refer to either a male or > > female and NOT > > > > JUST FEMALES ALONE, thus making the hoori-aayn or huri-aayn of > > Paradise be > > > > either males huri-aayn or females huri-aayn, because "huri- > aayn" > > is > > > > derived from the root word "hur". > > > > > > > > Another Important Note: In the section below, you will see > proof > > that a > > > > woman can only have one husband. A woman can't have multiple > > husbands. > > > > Only the man can have multiple wives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So what about the married (here on earth) believing men and > women? > > > > > > > > First of all, we have to understand that when Allah Almighty > > created us, > > > > He created us so we can live in pairs (husbands and wives) in > > harmony and > > > > peace for ever. "And among His Signs is this, that He created > > for you > > > > mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity > > with them, > > > > and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in > > that are > > > > Signs for those who reflect. (The Noble Quran, 30:21)" > > > > > > > > The righteous husbands and wives would live in harmony, peace > and > > love not > > > > only here on earth, but also in Paradise as well; "Enter ye the > > Garden, ye > > > > and your wives, in (beauty and) rejoicing. (The Noble Quran, > > 43:70)" > > > > > > > > Allah Almighty from His very first Creation of Mankind meant to > > create us > > > > to live in pairs (husbands and wives) in peace and harmony; "We > > said: 'O > > > > Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the > > bountiful > > > > things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not > this > > tree, or > > > > ye run into harm and transgression.' (The Noble Quran, 2:35)" > > This GOD > > > > Almighty's System will be implemented in Heaven for the > believers > > as we > > > > saw in Noble Verse 43:70 above. > > > > > > > > Let us look at what Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him said > > regarding > > > > women in Paradise: > > > > > > > > "This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira > > through > > > > another chain of transmitters that Allah's Messenger (may peace > > be upon > > > > him) said: The (members of the) first group which would get > into > > Paradise > > > > will have their faces as bright as stars in the sky. They would > > neither > > > > pass water, nor void excrement, nor will they suffer from > > catarrh, nor > > > > will they spit, and their combs would be made of gold, and > their > > sweat > > > > will be musk, the fuel of their brazier will be aloes, and > their > > wives > > > > will be large-eyed maidens and their form would be alike as one > > single > > > > person after the form of their father (Adam) sixty cubits tall. > > > > (Translation of Sahih Muslim, Book 40, The Book Pertaining to > > Paradise, > > > > Its Description, Its Bounties and Its Intimates (Kitab Al- > Jannat > > wa Sifat > > > > Na'imiha wa Ahliha), Number 6795)" > > > > > > > > Narrated Mu'adh ibn Jabal: "The Apostle of Allah > > (peace_be_upon_him) said: > > > > if anyone suppresses anger when he is in a position to give > vent > > to it, > > > > Allah, the Exalted, will call him on the Day of Resurrection > over > > the > > > > heads of all creatures, and ask him to choose any of the bright > > and large > > > > eyed maidens he wishes. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 41, General > > Behavior > > > > (Kitab Al-Adab), Number 4759)" > > > > > > > > The above two Sayings (Hadiths) of our beloved Prophet Muhammad > > peace be > > > > upon him tell us that: > > > > > > > > 1- The believing wives of the believing husbands will be as > > beautiful as > > > > the maidens or houris in Heaven, and they will be large-eyed > > maidens for > > > > their husbands. > > > > > > > > 2- The man can choose from any maidens he desires. > > > > > > > > 3- The single believing men and women who get admitted to > > Paradise can > > > > marry and live happily in Paradise since there will > be "husbands" > > and > > > > "wives". See Noble Verses 52:20 and 44:54 and the > > comments/analysis > > > > about them above. > > > > > > > > 4- A man can have wives and maidens. A woman can have only one > > husband. > > > > The maidens for the man will be of equal age and are never > > touched or seen > > > > by any man or jinn. Let us look at the following Noble Verses > > from the > > > > Noble Quran: > > > > > > > > "So taste ye (the fruits of your deeds); for no increase shall > We > > grant > > > > you, except in Punishment. Verily for the Righteous there will > > be a > > > > fulfilment of (the heart's) desires; Gardens enclosed, and > > grapevines; > > > > Companions of equal age; (The Noble Quran, 78:30-33)" > > > > > > > > "...Of the Gardens will be Near....In them will be (Maidens), > > chaste, > > > > restraining their glances, whom no Man or Jinn before them has > > touched. > > > > (The Noble Quran, 55:54, 56)" > > > > > > > > Here we clearly see that Allah Almighty prepared maidens of > equal > > age and > > > > who were never touched by Jinn or Man for the believing men. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In Paradise everyone (men and women) will live happily: > > > > > > > > Let us look at the following Noble Verses from the Noble Quran: > > > > > > > > "Verily the Companions of the Garden shall that Day have joy in > > all that > > > > they do; (The Noble Quran, 36:55)" > > > > > > > > "(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are > > promised: in it > > > > are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the > > taste never > > > > changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers > of > > honey > > > > pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; > and > > Grace > > > > from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such > as > > shall > > > > dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling > > water, so that > > > > it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)? (The Noble Quran, 47:15)" > > > > > > > > "As to those who believe and work righteous deeds, they have, > for > > their > > > > entertainment, the Gardens of Paradise, (The Noble Quran, > > 18:107)" > > > > > > > > "And those who feared their Lord will be led to the Garden in > > crowds: > > > > until behold, they arrive there; its gates will be opened; and > > its keepers > > > > will say: 'Peace be upon you! well have ye done! enter ye here, > > to dwell > > > > therein.' (The Noble Quran, 39:73)" > > > > > > > > "They will say: 'Praise be to God, Who has truly fulfilled His > > Promise to > > > > us, and has given us (this) land in heritage: We can dwell in > the > > Garden > > > > as we will: how excellent a reward for those who work > > (righteousness)!' > > > > (The Noble Quran, 39:74)" > > > > > > > > "But those who have faith and work righteousness, they are > > companions of > > > > the Garden: Therein shall they abide (For ever). (The Noble > > Quran, 2:82)" > > > > > > > > "Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a > > Garden > > > > whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the > > earth, > > > > prepared for the righteous, (The Noble Quran, 3:133)" > > > > > > > > "Every soul shall have a taste of death: And only on the Day of > > Judgment > > > > shall you be paid your full recompense. Only he who is saved > far > > from the > > > > Fire and admitted to the Garden will have attained the object > (of > > Life): > > > > For the life of this world is but goods and chattels of > > deception. (The > > > > Noble Quran, 3:185)" > > > > > > > > There are many more Noble Verses that elaborate on the Great > > Reward and > > > > Joy that the Believers (men and women) will have in Heaven, but > I > > think > > > > the above Noble Verses are good enough to prove my point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How come women in Islam can't have multiple husbands if they > are > > equal to > > > > men? > > > > > > > > This is one of the things that I personally can't speak on > behalf > > of GOD > > > > Almighty. I can't ALWAYS tell you why or why not He chose to do > > certain > > > > things. But throughout His Noble Revelations that started from > > the time > > > > of Adam all the way to Muhammad peace be upon them, polygany or > > polygamy > > > > (man having multiple women) is allowed (although it is highly > > discouraged > > > > to a point where it is almost prohibited in Islam to most men), > > where > > > > polyandry (woman having multiple husbands) had always been > > forbidden! > > > > > > > > Note: The word "polygamy" in the past used to mean men and > women > > marrying > > > > multiple husbands and wives, meaning that the man would have > > multiple > > > > wives and each of his wives would have multiple husbands. But > > today, the > > > > word had been modified to mean "man having multiple wives" > only. > > At > > > > least, this is what I meant it to mean in this article. > > > > > > > > As far as women being equal to men in Islam, well, please visit > > Women in > > > > Islam V.S. Christianity to see the many proofs that women are > > indeed equal > > > > to men in Islam and hold a very dear, respectful and honorable > > place in > > > > Islam, and how women on the other hand are nothing but "sex > > objects" who > > > > have no value in Christianity. Islam came to liberate and free > > women and > > > > put them on the highest ranks of honor. I provided quotes and > > proofs from > > > > both the Noble Quran, and the Bible's Old and New Testaments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Further additions and explanations from Muslims: > > > > > > > > The following addition was sent to me by brother Rizan Bin > > Noordin; may > > > > Allah Almighty always be pleased with him. > > > > > > > > Regarding the above-said article, I believe the answering-Islam > > team are > > > > mixing their views of Heaven with what they find here on Earth. > > In the > > > > Qur'an it is said: > > > > > > > > "And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive > > > > instruction." - surah adh-Dhariyat 51:49. > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates > from > > among > > > > yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He > > has put > > > > love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs > > for those > > > > who reflect." - surah ar-Room 30:21. > > > > > > > > Thus it is clear that for men there are women and vic versa. > The > > ideas of > > > > gayism or lesbianism are not from the commands of Allah, but > from > > the > > > > whisperings of syaitaan. > > > > > > > > "And (remember) Lut: behold, he said to his people: "Ye do > commit > > > > lewdness, such as no people in Creation (ever) committed before > > you. Do ye > > > > indeed approach men, and cut off the highway?- and practise > > wickedness > > > > (even) in your councils?" But his people gave no answer but > this: > > they > > > > said: "Bring us the Wrath of Allah if thou tellest the truth. > He > > said: "O > > > > my Lord! help Thou me against people who do mischief!" When Our > > Messengers > > > > came to Abraham with the good news, they said: "We are indeed > > going to > > > > destroy the people of this township: for truly they are > (addicted > > to) > > > > crime."" - surah al-Ankabut 29:28-31. > > > > > > > > "Those of you who turned back on the day the two hosts Met,-it > > was Satan > > > > who caused them to fail, because of some (evil) they had done. > > But Allah > > > > Has blotted out (their fault): For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most > > > > Forbearing." - surah al-Imran 3:155. > > > > > > > > "From the mischief of the Whisperer (of Evil), who withdraws > > (after his > > > > whisper),- (The same) who whispers into the hearts of Mankind,- > " - > > surah > > > > an-Nas 114:4-5. > > > > > > > > There cannot be any whisperings or evil in heaven. Thus the > > essential > > > > force that pushes men and women towards the revolting acts are > > removed. > > > > The Earthbound idea of having relations with servants, or with > > people of > > > > the same sex are no longer in the equation of human tendencies. > > Our minds > > > > will be free of such thought, thus the answering-Islam team's > > allegations > > > > that there will be the base desires in Heaven is absurd. It is > > clearly > > > > revealed in surah al-Jinn. > > > > > > > > "'And we[the jinn] pried into the secrets of heaven; but we > found > > it > > > > filled with stern guards and flaming fire." - surah al-Jinn > 72:8. > > > > > > > > So I believe the initial argument from the answering-Islam team > > is already > > > > wrong. They are arguing semantics while throwing out the > > essential message > > > > of the whole Qur'an. > > > > > > > > "O Messenger! let not those grieve thee, who race each other > into > > > > unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with > > their lips > > > > but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men > who > > will > > > > listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never > so > > much as > > > > come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times > and > > places: > > > > they say, "If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!" > If > > any > > > > one's trial is intended by Allah, thou hast no authority in the > > least for > > > > him against Allah. For such - it is not Allah's will to purify > > their > > > > hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the > > Hereafter a > > > > heavy punishment." - surah al-Maaidah 5:41. > > > > > > > > That is all from me brother Osama. I hope however little my > > efforts, I > > > > have helped in your cause. Please carry on your noble efforts > in > > the > > > > spirit of Islam. I hope Allah protect us from speaking untruth > > and shelter > > > > us from the lies of those with an agenda against His teachings, > > > > InsyaAllah. > > > > > > > > Allah Ma'ak. > > > > > > > > rm_danardono wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>jadi lu bener nggak sedikitpun terbersit keinginan nakal > untuk > > > > tidur dengan banyak/berbagai wanita cantik? kalau begitu lu > orang > > > > hebat..... orang pilihan<<<<< > > > > > > > > > > > > wahhh...nggak adil nihhh, gimana dengan wanita2 kita yang mimpi > > tidur > > > > dengan laki2 ganteng ala Tom Cruise dll? Masak laki2 melulu yang > > > > boleh mimpi indah?....disurga katanya ditunggu bidadari yang > > perawan2 > > > > terus...lah yang wanita saleh ditunggu siapa? masak iya ditunggu > > > > Mullah2 yang sudah meninggal? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Suhiro wrote: > > > >> > > > >> siapa bilang poligami urusan horisontal saja...disitu ada > > tanggung > > > > jawab > > > >> kepada TUhan..... > > > >> lagian, umat yang meyakini poligami atau hukum poligami itu > dari > > > > tuhan > > > >> sehingga hanya bisa dipake logika Tuhan, bukan logika manusia, > > > > walaupun > > > >> ada yang tidak, yaitu yang percaya tidk ada hukum Tuhan. > > > >> > > > >> jadi kalo urusan vertikal boleh pake logika Allah, horisontal > > tidak > > > >> > > > >> kawin Mut'ah...boleh-boleh saja kalo mau mengambil hukum itu, > > islam > > > > syiah > > > >> katanya membolehkan > > > >> > > > >> jadi lu bener nggak sedikitpun terbersit keinginan nakal untuk > > tidur > > > >> dengan banyak/berbagai wanita cantik? > > > >> > > > >> kalau begitu lu orang hebat..... orang pilihan > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, jksutan wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > logika Allah mengatur urusan vertikal > > > >> > > > > >> > poligami itu urusan horisontal yaitu manusia dgn manusia lain > > > >> > > > > >> > achh gimana pula kau ini BAH! > > > >> > > > > >> > kenapa kawin mutah tak kau imani saja sekalian...? itu baru > > > > wuenak > > > >> > tenan... > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Suhiro wrote: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > bagaimana kalo Logika Allah dipake dalam kasus poligami > ini? > > > >> > > juga iman seperti kata Bung Fisdens, > > > >> > > > > > >> > > kalau pake keduanya kan tidak ada masalah lagi to? > > > >> > > > > > >> > > iman dan logika Allah pernah saya baca di sejarah Tuhan, > > sewaktu > > > >> > > ditanyakan," > > > >> > > Dimanakah Tuhan Bapa sewaktu Yesus disalib, diman juga Roh > > > > Kudus, > > > >> > > apa TUhan Bapa dan Roh Kudus ikut di salib? > > > >> > > kalau ikut disalib dan mati, siapa yang mengatur alam > semesta > > > > pada > > > >> > waktu > > > >> > > itu? > > > >> > > bagaimana yang berbeda bisa berada di tempat dan waktu yang > > > > sama? > > > >> > > > > > >> > > itu hanya bisa dijawab dengan IMAN > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Fidens Simanjuntak wrote: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Dear Nizami, > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Maaf bung Fidens, > > > >> > > > > Ini logika orang awam ya, > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Tidak apa-apa mbak Nizami. Saya juga dulu sering > bertanya- > > > > tanya > > > >> > dengan > > > >> > > > memakai logika orang awam. Dari situ iman saya > berkembang. > > > > Tapi, > > > >> > dari > > > >> > > > pengalaman saya, logika "orang-orang awam" itu tidak > > sanggup > > > >> > > > mengikuti/memahami logika Allah. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Jika Allah melarang Abraham dan Yakob berpoligami, > > bukankah > > > >> > Allah akan menegur langsung pada saat itu juga (mis pada > surat > > > >> > Kejadian/Raja2)? Lagi pula Abraham dan Yakob itu setahu saya > > > > adalah > > > >> > Nabi. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Saya tidak tahu apakah ada ayat yang menunjukkan bahwa > > Allah > > > >> > menegur > > > >> > > > nabi-nabinya karena polygamy. Tapi ada ayat-ayat lain > > dimana > > > >> > Allah > > > >> > > > menegur nabi-nabinya, misalnya > > > >> > > > Musa ditegur karena tidak menuruti perintah Allah --> > > > > akibatnya > > > >> > Musa > > > >> > > > tidak bisa masuk ke tanah perjanjian. Daud, ditegur > sewaktu > > > > dia > > > >> > > > melakukan perzinahan. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Kalau saya boleh memakai logika orang awam juga, pada > saat > > > > Allah > > > >> > itu > > > >> > > > punya rencana penyelamatan yang besar dalam diri Yesus. > > Allah > > > >> > ingin > > > >> > > > menyelamatkan seluruh orang, bukan hanya nabi-nabinya. > > Allah > > > > itu > > > >> > BIG > > > >> > > > BOSS kita manusia. Adakah seorang BOSS perusahaan > > > > multinasional > > > >> > yang > > > >> > > > sedang merencanakan investasi besar-besaran ke seluruh > > > > pelosok > > > >> > dunia, > > > >> > > > mengurusi hutang tukang sapu gedung kantor cabang > > > > perusahaannya > > > >> > di > > > >> > > > Pulo Gadung, tiap kali si tukang sapu nunggak kredit ?? > Ini > > > >> > contoh > > > >> > > > saja. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Coba mbak Nizami lihat Kejadian 2:24 > > > >> > > > "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother > and > > > > be > > > >> > united > > > >> > > > to his wife, and they will become one flesh. " > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Orang yang menikah akan jadi "ONE FLESH", satu daging. > > Kalau > > > >> > begini, > > > >> > > > apakah polygamy tidak mengacau-balaukan rencana Allah ?? > > > >> > Jawabannya > > > >> > > > saya kembalikan pada mbak Nizami sendiri. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Jika larangan itu diturunkan pada surat Korintus, > apakah > > > > tidak > > > >> > terlambat? Setahu saya Korintus itu turun pada zaman > > > > Paulus/Yesus. > > > >> > Sementara antara Abraham dan Yakob dengan Yesus/Paulus ada > > > > rentang > > > >> > waktu ribuan tahun. > > > >> > > > > Jadi jika larangan itu diturunkan terlambat, bagaimana > > > > nasib > > > >> > Abraham dan Yakob? Masuk neraka? > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Tidak terlambat, karena sudah ada ayat di Kejadian 2:24 > > tadi. > > > >> > Kenapa > > > >> > > > mereka polygamy ? Karena kurang percaya pada Tuhan Allah. > > > > Abraham > > > >> > > > menikahi pelayannya karena ingin punya anak dan karena > > > > Istrinya > > > >> > sudah > > > >> > > > mulai tua, yang menurut logika dia, sudah tidak mungkin > > > >> > melahirkan. > > > >> > > > Tuhan Allah sudah menjanjikan bahwa keturunannya akan > > banyak > > > >> > seperti > > > >> > > > bintang-bintang di langit.Tapi dia mulai ragu, dan > akhirnya > > > > patah > > > >> > > > imannya. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Nasib Abraham dan Yakob ?! Saya yakin mereka diterima di > > > > Surga > > > >> > meski > > > >> > > > mereka berdosa. > > > >> > > > Masak sih Abraham, yang dijanjikan Tuhan Allah menjadi > > bapak > > > >> > segala > > > >> > > > bangsa, masuk neraka. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Sebelum Kristus, manusia diberikan Hukum-Hukum, Larangan- > > > >> > Larangan agar > > > >> > > > mengetahui mana yang baik dan mana yang benar. Setelah > > > > Kristus > > > >> > datang, > > > >> > > > kita cukup percaya pada-Nya dan menerimanya sebagai > > > > juruselamat > > > >> > agar > > > >> > > > diselamatkan. Kekristenan bukanlah agama, tapi hubungan > > > > pribadi > > > >> > antara > > > >> > > > seorang manusia dengan Yesus Kristus. Seorang Kristen > > adalah > > > >> > seorang > > > >> > > > yang memiliki hubungan pribadi ini. > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > Dari surat Korintus itu, saya lihat sebaiknya tidak > > > >> > menikah...:) > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Ya. Itu yang terbaik. Seperti pastor-pastor di gereja > > > > Katolik, > > > >> > kalau > > > >> > > > saya boleh ambil contoh. Tapi berhubung saya manusia yang > > > > lemah, > > > >> > saya > > > >> > > > akan menikah :-). > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Salam, > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > -- > > > >> > > > Fidens Felix Simanjuntak > > > >> > > > Master Course Student > > > >> > > > VLSI Design Lab. > > > >> > > > Graduate School of Information Science and Technology > > > >> > > > Osaka University, Japan > > > >> > > > Private URL: http://www.visiac.com > > > >> > > > Bussiness URL: http://www.petanigroup.com > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************* > > > >> > ****** > > > >> > > > Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. > > > > Menuju > > > >> > Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. > > > >> > www.ppiindia.shyper.com > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************* > > > >> > ****** > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > > >> > _____ > > > >> > > > Mohon Perhatian: > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA > (kecuali > > > > sbg > > > >> > otokritik) > > > >> > > > 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan > > > >> > dikomentari. > > > >> > > > 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru; > > > >> > > > 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> > > > 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> > > > 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> > > > 7. kembali menerima email: ppiindia- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > > > ***** > > > >> > Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. > Menuju > > > > Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. > > > > www.ppiindia.shyper.com > > > >> > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > > > ***** > > > >> > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > > ____ > > > >> > Mohon Perhatian: > > > >> > > > > >> > 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali > sbg > > > > otokritik) > > > >> > 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan > > > > dikomentari. > > > >> > 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru; > > > >> > 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> > 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> > 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> > 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >> > > > > >> > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > ***** > > > > Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju > > Indonesia > > > > yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. > > www.ppiindia.shyper.com > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > ***** > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ____ > > > > Mohon Perhatian: > > > > > > > > 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg > > otokritik) > > > > 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan > > dikomentari. > > > > 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru; > > > > 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > ***** > > > > Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju > > Indonesia > > > > yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. > > www.ppiindia.shyper.com > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > ***** > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > ____ > > > > Mohon Perhatian: > > > > > > > > 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg > > otokritik) > > > > 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan > > dikomentari. > > > > 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru; > > > > 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************************************** > ***** > > Berdikusi dg Santun & Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju > Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality & Shared Destiny. www.ppi- > india.uni.cc > > > ********************************************************************** > ***** > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ____ > > Mohon Perhatian: > > > > 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg > otokritik) > > 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari. > > 3. Lihat arsip sebelumnya, www.ppi-india.da.ru; > > 4. Posting: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 5. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 6. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 7. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Yahoo! 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