dear pak Nugroho,
   
  actually, i dont want u to misunderstood my previous posting, im not 
generalize ppl that have islam as their religion as wahhabist. i met many good 
ppl ( that by birth and family, made them a muslim). in fact two of my closest 
friend have Islam as their religion. also, i have great respect for ppl like 
Gus dur, Ulil n ppl in Is-lib, for me they re a freedom-fighter. 
   
  but thats not my point. majority of muslim in indonesia are fundies or a 
potential fundies, they claimed that Gus dur is not a true muslim, in fact they 
even treated Ulil as an apostate. liberal and moderate muslim re loosing 
ground, they re not popular, some claimed that there're more moderate Islam in 
indonesia, but where re they? why they never speak up? only the same person 
over and over again speak up. and they re only few. (actually if u want to 
added indonesian celebrities to this count..that fine with me).
   
  the ppl that called them selves a liberal muslim use their voice of reason 
and heart's compassion. but again sadly i have to say there're very few of 
them. 
   
  bcs majority of muslim follow as what Imam al Ghazzali (1058 – 1111) said: 
“Where the claims of reason come into conflict with revelation, reason must 
yield to revelation.” (Tahafut al-falasafa, the Incoherence of Philosophers).

  i think we have to be dare to know and dare to ask question regarding this 
matter. should we interpret reality to fit our view? or should i adapt our view 
to reality? 
   
  As Bertrand Russell once said, "The whole problem with the world is that 
fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so 
full of doubts." Elsewhere he said, "Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, 
for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric." 
   
  Science historian Thomas Kuhn wrote, ‘In science…ideas do not change simply 
because new facts win out over outmoded ones…Since the facts can’t speak for 
themselves, it is their human advocates who win or lose the day’ (Shirley C. 
Strum, Almost Human, 1987—Strum’s references are to Thomas Kuhn’s The Structure 
of Scientific Revolutions, second edn, 1970). 
   
   John Stuart Mill, in his essay On Liberty, emphasized that, ‘the dictum that 
truth always triumphs over persecution is one of those pleasant falsehoods 
which men repeat after one another till they pass into commonplaces, but which 
all experience refutes. History teems with instances of truth put down by 
persecution. If not suppressed for ever, it may be thrown back for centuries.” 
   
  It is a lie to think that truth will automatically triumph over lies or that 
goodness will eventually win over evil on its own. This is a sweet lie that has 
no bases on reality and it serves to no purpose other than to lull us into 
inaction. Truth does not win unless someone promotes it and goodness will not 
triumph unless someone advances it. 
   
  Who will advance the truth? The orthodoxy will not tolerate innovative ideas 
that defy its paradigm. 
      
    
The pioneers ( liberal muslim) are often outsiders. They are mavericks and 
heretics, rejected by the orthodoxy in this case the wahhabism as the orthodox.
   
  Not all learning is knowledge. Most people have learned a lot, but they know 
little. They are scholars, but not scouts.  
     
  regarding wahhabism, why more muslim follows this kinda teaching (not voice 
of reason n their compassion, like all liberal muslim) ? this fact is defies 
logic. What actually is happening is that they feel threatened.  Their faith is 
challenged, and as the result, they hide deeper in their shell. They will not 
venture out, until that shell is completely broken and it can no longer provide 
protection (this related to ur posting " Rendah diri kaum wahhabi"). so to 
achieve that goal, we must pound on it with truth until it is smashed into 
pieces. 
   
  Erick Fromm in, The Fear of Freedom, (Routledge 17 May 2001) upholds the idea 
that capitalism frees man from a society that reduces him to a single role, but 
at a price. The price is isolation. Man has to find or create his place in the 
world. This causes anxiety. Whilst fascism, Nazism, theocracies, and all forms 
of authoritarianisms, satisfy man’s psychological need to belong. They provide 
a simple "us vs. them" ethos which gives the adherent something bigger to be a 
part of. Through conformity man tries to beat the anxiety of separation. That 
means loss of freedom and loss of independence. By conforming you belong, but 
you give up your wholeness and become a part of something else.   
   
  The fear of being different, to be isolated, to become an outcast, is cause 
for anxiety and this is what makes us humans conform – conform with the norms 
and the dictums of the society –  with its values, its standards, its mores and 
its wisdom. We need to find something to belong to. Our peers, our country, our 
religion and ultimately our faith/ideology give us security and the sense of 
belonging. They are shells that we carry along to hide within and feel safe. 
Therefore, we are protective of them. That is why we become defensive if our 
beliefs are challenged. People can become abusive, aggressive and even violent 
when their faith is threatened.  That is why Socrates was forced to drink 
poison, Jordano Bruno was burned, Galileo was imprisoned, Jesus was crucified, 
Joan of Arc was incinerated. They died because they pioneered new ideas that 
threatened the faiths of the people.
   
  “What is Enlightenment?,” the German philosopher Immanuel Kant wrote:
  “Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity. 
Immaturity is the inability to use one's understanding without guidance from 
another. This immaturity is self-imposed when its cause lies not in lack of 
understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it without guidance 
from another. Sapere Aude! [dare to know] ‘Have courage to use your own 
understanding!’--that is the motto of enlightenment.” [3] 
   
  the ppl who claimmed them selves as liberal muslim re the outcast muslim. 
they re a tiny voice in the islam community. still the wahhabist fundies 
outnumbered them.  facts that there're growing number of fundies popularity 
these days not only in indonesia but all over the world.
   
  i agree with u, that we all have a home work to do. hopefully the voice of 
reason n humanity will break the shell of blind faith. (not only in ur religion 
but generally in all religions).
   
   
  peace
   
Nugroho Dewanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
          
terserah anda mengatakan wahabi adalah islam yang sesungguhnya,
atau islam yang murni.

sebaliknya saya tak akan pernah mengatakan kristen sebagaimana
diyakini george bush adalah kristen yang sesungguhnya, atau kristen
yang murni.

terlalu banyak orang besar kristen yang tak layak dibandingkan dengan
seorang george bush yang acap mengutip injil dalam pidatonya.

saya cuma akan mengatakan bahwa ideologi kebencian bisa
datang dari mana saja. termasuk dari kalangan kita sendiri.

kesetaraan, kemanusiaan dan kebebasan yang dulu diperjuangkan
abraham lincoln di amerika --hingga dia terpaksa mendeklarasikan perang
saudara yang menewaskan 640 ribu orang-- kini terancam oleh sebuah
rezim yang kebijakannya didasari kredo untuk menegakkan
"hak-hak kekristenan".

alangkah menyedihkan. dan soal ini menjadi pr besar buat rakyat amerika.

At 04:32 AM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote:

>so i got the conclusion then, i think wahhabism is the real islam, it's 
>the pure islam. many of muslim scholar's apologist try to counter this 
>perception abt wahhabism is the real islam. but how can they counter the 
>Quran n hadith. how can they contradict Quran n hadith bcs by facts 
>wahhabism practicing the pure Quran n hadith.
>
>the universal values is not in one's religion, but in equality, humanity 
>and freedom.
>
>in my personal opinion, the best religion dont exist. it's delusional. the 
>true religion/belief i dont have a clue what it is, even an atheist 
>claimed what they believe is the truth. anyway, u dont have to agree with 
>me though, everyone has their own opinion n beliefs. it's their right. 
>their personal faith re their basic right . who am i to claim that 
>hindhuism re the true religion, or atheist re the best belief system? so 
>why bother?
>
>but now humanity has new enemy it's called- ideology of hatred. hitler had 
>tried once to genocide one race n to conquered europe, but he was 
>defeated. and died in shame. so this "ism" will also ended sooner or later.
>
>
>
>peace
>



                         

       
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