dear pak Nugroho,
realism..sir, not pessimism.
i have high hopes for humanity. man re never created to be evil. but when man
stop to heard their voice of reason n stop to feel compassion. the evil begins.
anyway, as long as man chose to use their voice of reason n compassion. i
think our civilization will survive.
as for ur comment on US, likewise i never loose my confidence on american
ppl. america's great history of humanity and liberty has been in hundred of
years. american ppl survive many wars from WW2, korean war, the tragic lost of
vietnam war and the most tragic was civil war. the war within american ppl. the
war where brothers killing brothers for the sake of humanity. yet humanity
won. american ppl won.
so i never loose faith on american. their country is the last fortress and
beacon of liberty in this world.
GWB after 9/11 have all support and anonymous vote from both party, even all
american supported him. but as years passed his popularity has dropped to
lowest level.
many american ppl dont support him anymore. u know why it's happenned? bcs
it's america. we cant force american ppl to think the way we want, bcs they
will argue with u, they will ask many questions. they will critize ur policy.
they will investigate. in US no one is above the law. thats democracy.
i think we have to learn from american. bcs they re dare to know n dare to
ask. it's the voice of reason.
peace
Nugroho Dewanto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
maaf carla, saya tak berbagi pesimisme dengan anda dalam
memandang manusia.
manusia tidak bergelimang dan lekat dengan dosa (kebodohan),
justeru dia berpotensi menjadi mahluk Tuhan yang terbaik di atas
muka bumi.
saya tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) amerika. sekarang sudah ada
tanda-tanda rezim bush akan bangkrut. mereka sudah kalah di
kongres dan kandidatnya dalam pemilihan presiden terkena isu
suap dari mafia.
rezim neo-konservatif pro-industri pencemar lingkungan yang tak mau
meneken protokol kyoto itu akan segera berakhir. bahkan
sebagian tokoh republik, mis gubernur kalifornia arnold schwartzeneger,
sekarang terang-terangan mendukung agenda demokrasi, kemanusiaan
dan kelestarian lingkungan yang biasa diusung kaum demokrat.
saya juga tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) indonesia. semakin
banyak cendekiawan muda yang berpandangan maju. bila bisa bebas
dari korupsi, indonesia akan jadi bangsa maju dan demokrat terbesar dari
kalangan dunia islam.
saran saya, jangan terlalu melihat kelompok militan yang sebetulnya
kecil tapi suaranya keras. jangan sampai melihat bayangan harimau,
padahal di balik lampu cuma ada seekor kucing.
At 10:54 PM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>dear pak Nugroho,
>
>actually, i dont want u to misunderstood my previous posting, im not
>generalize ppl that have islam as their religion as wahhabist. i met many
>good ppl ( that by birth and family, made them a muslim). in fact two of
>my closest friend have Islam as their religion. also, i have great respect
>for ppl like Gus dur, Ulil n ppl in Is-lib, for me they re a freedom-fighter.
>
>but thats not my point. majority of muslim in indonesia are fundies or a
>potential fundies, they claimed that Gus dur is not a true muslim, in fact
>they even treated Ulil as an apostate. liberal and moderate muslim re
>loosing ground, they re not popular, some claimed that there're more
>moderate Islam in indonesia, but where re they? why they never speak up?
>only the same person over and over again speak up. and they re only few.
>(actually if u want to added indonesian celebrities to this count..that
>fine with me).
>
>the ppl that called them selves a liberal muslim use their voice of reason
>and heart's compassion. but again sadly i have to say there're very few of
>them.
>
>bcs majority of muslim follow as what Imam al Ghazzali (1058 1111) said:
>Where the claims of reason come into conflict with revelation, reason
>must yield to revelation. (Tahafut al-falasafa, the Incoherence of
>Philosophers).
>
>i think we have to be dare to know and dare to ask question regarding this
>matter. should we interpret reality to fit our view? or should i adapt our
>view to reality?
>
>As Bertrand Russell once said, "The whole problem with the world is that
>fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people
>so full of doubts." Elsewhere he said, "Do not fear to be eccentric in
>opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric."
>
>Science historian Thomas Kuhn wrote, In science
ideas do not change
>simply because new facts win out over outmoded ones
Since the facts cant
>speak for themselves, it is their human advocates who win or lose the day
>(Shirley C. Strum, Almost Human, 1987Strums references are to Thomas
>Kuhns The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, second edn, 1970).
>
>John Stuart Mill, in his essay On Liberty, emphasized that, the dictum
>that truth always triumphs over persecution is one of those pleasant
>falsehoods which men repeat after one another till they pass into
>commonplaces, but which all experience refutes. History teems with
>instances of truth put down by persecution. If not suppressed for ever, it
>may be thrown back for centuries.
>
>It is a lie to think that truth will automatically triumph over lies or
>that goodness will eventually win over evil on its own. This is a sweet
>lie that has no bases on reality and it serves to no purpose other than to
>lull us into inaction. Truth does not win unless someone promotes it and
>goodness will not triumph unless someone advances it.
>
>Who will advance the truth? The orthodoxy will not tolerate innovative
>ideas that defy its paradigm.
>
>
>The pioneers ( liberal muslim) are often outsiders. They are mavericks and
>heretics, rejected by the orthodoxy in this case the wahhabism as the orthodox.
>
>Not all learning is knowledge. Most people have learned a lot, but they
>know little. They are scholars, but not scouts.
>
>regarding wahhabism, why more muslim follows this kinda teaching (not
>voice of reason n their compassion, like all liberal muslim) ? this fact
>is defies logic. What actually is happening is that they feel threatened.
>Their faith is challenged, and as the result, they hide deeper in their
>shell. They will not venture out, until that shell is completely broken
>and it can no longer provide protection (this related to ur posting "
>Rendah diri kaum wahhabi"). so to achieve that goal, we must pound on it
>with truth until it is smashed into pieces.
>
>Erick Fromm in, The Fear of Freedom, (Routledge 17 May 2001) upholds the
>idea that capitalism frees man from a society that reduces him to a single
>role, but at a price. The price is isolation. Man has to find or create
>his place in the world. This causes anxiety. Whilst fascism, Nazism,
>theocracies, and all forms of authoritarianisms, satisfy mans
>psychological need to belong. They provide a simple "us vs. them" ethos
>which gives the adherent something bigger to be a part of. Through
>conformity man tries to beat the anxiety of separation. That means loss of
>freedom and loss of independence. By conforming you belong, but you give
>up your wholeness and become a part of something else.
>
>The fear of being different, to be isolated, to become an outcast, is
>cause for anxiety and this is what makes us humans conform conform with
>the norms and the dictums of the society with its values, its standards,
>its mores and its wisdom. We need to find something to belong to. Our
>peers, our country, our religion and ultimately our faith/ideology give us
>security and the sense of belonging. They are shells that we carry along
>to hide within and feel safe. Therefore, we are protective of them. That
>is why we become defensive if our beliefs are challenged. People can
>become abusive, aggressive and even violent when their faith is
>threatened. That is why Socrates was forced to drink poison, Jordano Bruno
>was burned, Galileo was imprisoned, Jesus was crucified, Joan of Arc was
>incinerated. They died because they pioneered new ideas that threatened
>the faiths of the people.
>
>What is Enlightenment?, the German philosopher Immanuel Kant wrote:
>Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed immaturity.
>Immaturity is the inability to use one's understanding without guidance
>from another. This immaturity is self-imposed when its cause lies not in
>lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage to use it
>without guidance from another. Sapere Aude! [dare to know] Have courage
>to use your own understanding!--that is the motto of enlightenment. [3]
>
>the ppl who claimmed them selves as liberal muslim re the outcast muslim.
>they re a tiny voice in the islam community. still the wahhabist fundies
>outnumbered them. facts that there're growing number of fundies popularity
>these days not only in indonesia but all over the world.
>
>i agree with u, that we all have a home work to do. hopefully the voice of
>reason n humanity will break the shell of blind faith. (not only in ur
>religion but generally in all religions).
>
>
>peace
>
>Nugroho Dewanto
><<mailto:ndewanto%40mail.tempo.co.id>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>terserah anda mengatakan wahabi adalah islam yang sesungguhnya,
>atau islam yang murni.
>
>sebaliknya saya tak akan pernah mengatakan kristen sebagaimana
>diyakini george bush adalah kristen yang sesungguhnya, atau kristen
>yang murni.
>
>terlalu banyak orang besar kristen yang tak layak dibandingkan dengan
>seorang george bush yang acap mengutip injil dalam pidatonya.
>
>saya cuma akan mengatakan bahwa ideologi kebencian bisa
>datang dari mana saja. termasuk dari kalangan kita sendiri.
>
>kesetaraan, kemanusiaan dan kebebasan yang dulu diperjuangkan
>abraham lincoln di amerika --hingga dia terpaksa mendeklarasikan perang
>saudara yang menewaskan 640 ribu orang-- kini terancam oleh sebuah
>rezim yang kebijakannya didasari kredo untuk menegakkan
>"hak-hak kekristenan".
>
>alangkah menyedihkan. dan soal ini menjadi pr besar buat rakyat amerika.
>
>At 04:32 AM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
> >so i got the conclusion then, i think wahhabism is the real islam, it's
> >the pure islam. many of muslim scholar's apologist try to counter this
> >perception abt wahhabism is the real islam. but how can they counter the
> >Quran n hadith. how can they contradict Quran n hadith bcs by facts
> >wahhabism practicing the pure Quran n hadith.
> >
> >the universal values is not in one's religion, but in equality, humanity
> >and freedom.
> >
> >in my personal opinion, the best religion dont exist. it's delusional. the
> >true religion/belief i dont have a clue what it is, even an atheist
> >claimed what they believe is the truth. anyway, u dont have to agree with
> >me though, everyone has their own opinion n beliefs. it's their right.
> >their personal faith re their basic right . who am i to claim that
> >hindhuism re the true religion, or atheist re the best belief system? so
> >why bother?
> >
> >but now humanity has new enemy it's called- ideology of hatred. hitler had
> >tried once to genocide one race n to conquered europe, but he was
> >defeated. and died in shame. so this "ism" will also ended sooner or later.
> >
> >
> >
> >peace
> >
>
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