He sure is an Araoz Hole ************************************************************************ Right Wing Mike
http://www.cafepress.com Bigfoot Hates Obama http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike/5690856 I Wish Hillary had married OJ http://www.cafepress.com/rightwingmike/4236924 --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Ricardo Araoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > From: Ricardo Araoz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [OT] why some people get the God story. > To: "ProFox Email List" <[email protected]> > Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 3:08 PM > Helio Wakasugui wrote: > > This text must have been written by the same guy who > wrote that cr*p > > movie "Expelled". > > > > HW > > > > Let's see... (check further on) > > > > > On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 3:44 PM, Wolfe, Stephen S Civ > USAF AMC 6 > > MDSS/SGSI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> <snip> > >> > >>>> There is good and there is evil. > >>> And God created both. > >> > >> Long Read... > >> > >> "LET ME EXPLAIN THE problem science has with > Jesus Christ." The atheist professor of philosophy > pauses before his class and then asks one of his new > students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't > you, son?" > >> "Yes, sir." > >> "So you believe in God?" > >> "Absolutely." > >> "Is God good?" > >> "Sure! God's good." > >> "Is God all-powerful? Can God do > anything?" > >> "Yes." > >> "Are you good or evil?" > >> "The Bible says I'm evil." > >> The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE > BIBLE!" He considers for a moment. "Here's > one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over > here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help > them? Would you try?" > >> "Yes sir, I would." > >> "So you're good...!" > >> "I wouldn't say that." > >> "Why not say that? You would help a sick > and maimed person if you could...in fact most of us would > if we could....God doesn't." > >> [No answer] > >> "He doesn't, does he? My brother was > a Christian who died of cancer even though he prayed to > Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you > answer that one?" > >> [No answer] > >> The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you > can't, can you?" He takes a sip of water from a > glass on his desk to give the student time to relax. > "In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. > Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?" > >> "Er... Yes." > >> "Is Satan good?" > >> "No." > >> "Where does Satan come from?" > >> The student falters. "From... > God..." > >> "That's right. God made Satan, > didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony fingers > through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking student > audience. "I think we're going to have a lot of fun > this semester, ladies and gentlemen." He turns back to > the Christian. "Tell me, son. Is there evil in this > world?" > >> "Yes, sir." > >> "Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did > God make everything?" > >> "Yes." > >> "Who created evil?" > >> [No answer] > >> "Is there sickness in this world? > Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness. All the terrible things - do > they exist in this world? " > >> The student squirms on his feet. > "Yes." > >> "Who created them?" > >> [No answer] > >> The professor suddenly shouts at his student, > "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME, PLEASE!" The > professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the > Christian's face. In a still small voice, he asked, > "God created all evil, didn't He, son?" > >> [No answer] > >> The student tries to hold the steady, > experienced gaze and fails. Suddenly the lecturer breaks > away to pace the front of the classroom like an aging > panther. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he > continues, "How is it that this God is good if He > created all evil throughout all time?" The professor > swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the > world. "All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, > all the torture, all the death and ugliness and all the > suffering created by this good God is all over the world, > isn't it, young man?" > >> [No answer] > >> "Don't you see it all over the place? > Huh?" Pause. "Don't you?" The professor > leans into the student's face again and > >> whispers, "Is God good?" > >> [No answer] > >> "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, > son?" > >> The student's voice betrays him and > cracks. "Yes, professor. I do." > >> The old man shakes his head sadly. > "Science says you have five senses you use to identify > and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen > Jesus?" > >> "No, sir. I've never seen Him." > >> "Then tell us if you've ever heard > your Jesus?" > >> "No, sir. I have not." > >> "Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted > your Jesus or smelt your Jesus... in fact, do you have any > sensory perception of your God whatsoever?" > >> [No answer] > >> "Answer me, please." > >> "No, sir, I'm afraid I > haven't." > >> "You're AFRAID... you > haven't?" > >> "No, sir." > >> "Yet you still believe in him?" > >> "...yes..." > >> "That takes FAITH!" The professor > smiles sagely at the underling. "According to the > rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, > science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to > that, son? Where is your God now?" > >> [The student doesn't answer] > >> "Sit down, please." > >> The first Christian sits...defeated. > >> Another Christian raises his hand. > "Professor, may I address the class?" > >> The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, yet > another Christian in the vanguard! Come, come, young man. > Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering." > >> The Christian looks around the room. > "Some interesting points you are making, sir. Now > I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as > heat?" > >> "Yes," the professor replies. > "There's heat." > >> "Is there such a thing as cold?" > >> "Yes, son, there's cold too." > >> "No, sir, there isn't." > >> The professor's grin freezes. The room > suddenly becomes very quiet. The second Christian > continues. > >> "You can have lots of heat, even more > heat, super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or > no heat, but we don't have anything called > 'cold'. We can hit 273 degrees below zero, which is > no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There > is no such thing as cold, otherwise we would be able to go > colder than -273°C. You see, sir, cold is only a word we > use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure > cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is > energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the > absence of it." > >> Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the > classroom. > >> "Is there such a thing as darkness, > professor?" > >> "That's a dumb question, son. What is > night if it isn't darkness? What are you getting > at...?" > >> "So you say there is such a thing as > darkness?" > >> "Yes..." > >> "You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is > not something, it is the absence of something. You can have > low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light... > but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and > it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the > meaning we use to define the word. In reality, Darkness > isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness > darker and give me a jar of it. Can you... give me a jar of > darker darkness, professor?" > >> Despite himself, the professor smiles at the > young effrontery before him. This will indeed be a good > semester. "Would you mind telling us what your point > is, young man?" > >> "Yes, professor. My point is, your > philosophical premise is flawed to start with and so your > conclusion must be in error...." > >> The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How > dare you...!" > >> "Sir, may I explain what I mean?" > >> The class is all ears. > >> "Explain... ohhhhh, explain..." The > professor makes an admirable effort to regain control. > Suddenly he is affability himself. He waves his hand to > silence the class, for the student to continue. > >> "You are working on the premise of > duality," the Christian explains. "That for > example there is life and then there's death; a good > God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as > something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science > cannot even explain a thought. It uses electricity and > magnetism but has never seen, much less fully understood > them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be > ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a > substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, > merely the absence of it." The young man holds up a > newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been > reading it. "Here is one of the most disgusting > tabloids this country hosts, professor. Is there such a > thing as immorality?" > >> "Of course there is, now look..." > >> "Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is > merely the absence of morality. Is there such thing as > injustice? No. Injustice is the absence of justice. Is > there such a thing as evil?" The Christian pauses. > "Isn't evil the absence of good?" > > NO, NOT AT ALL! If you check you'll see that God is > EVERYWHERE, and that > EVERYTHING came FROM God. So there CAN NOT be absence of > God. God must > surely be in Hell too. > > >> The professor's face has turned an > alarming color. He is so angry he is temporarily > speechless. > >> The Christian continues, "If there is > evil in the world, professor, and we all agree there is, > then God, if He exists, must be accomplishing a work > through the agency of evil.1 What is that work God is > accomplishing? The Bible tells us it is to see if each one > of us will, of our own free will, choose good over > evil."2 > > And yet all this bullshit rests on top of that little tiny > phrase you so > inadvertently said "if he exists". > > >> The professor bridles. "As a > philosophical scientist, I don't view this matter as > having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I > absolutely do not recognize the concept of God or any other > theological factor as being part of the world equation > because God is not observable." > >> The Christian replies, "I would have > thought that the absence of God's moral code in this > world is probably one of the most observable phenomena > going, Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it > every week! Tell me, professor. Do you teach your students > that they evolved from a monkey?" > >> "If you are referring to the natural > evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do." > >> "Have you ever observed evolution with > your own eyes, sir?" > >> The professor makes a sucking sound with his > teeth and gives his student a silent, stony stare. > >> "Professor. Since no one has ever > observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even > prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you > not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a > scientist, but a preacher?" > >> "I'll overlook your impudence in the > light of our philosophical discussion. Now, have you quite > finished?" the professor hisses. > >> "So you don't accept God's moral > code to do what is righteous?" > > Why should he accept it. There is NO "God's moral > code" if you have not > proved His/Hers existence. Your premises must be acceptable > before you > can rush on with your syllogisms. > > >> "I believe in what is - that's > science!" > >> "Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's > face splits into a grin. "Sir, you rightly state that > science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is > a premise which is flawed..." > >> "SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor > splutters. > >> The class is in uproar. The Christian remains > standing until the commotion has subsided. "To > continue the point you were making earlier to the other > student, may I give you an example of what I mean?" > >> The professor wisely keeps silent. > >> The Christian looks around the room. "Is > there anyone in the class who has ever seen the > professor's mind?" The class breaks out into > laughter. The Christian points towards his elderly, > crumbling tutor. "Is there anyone here who has ever > heard the professor's mind... felt the professor's > mind, touched or smelt the professor's mind? No one > appears to have done so." The Christian shakes his > head sadly. "It appears no one here has had any > sensory perception of the professor's mind whatsoever. > Well, according to the rules of empirical, stable, > demonstrable protocol, science, I DECLARE that the > professor has no mind." > > He should first have to DEFINE what does the word > "mind" stand for. Then > he would have to be taught that science accepts indirect > proof, not > everything is direct observation but everything must rest > on direct > observation. > > > >> Ed, did the story above make any sense? > >> > >> > > Nope, not at all. But that fits in with someone who says > that the corner > stone of his self is a being that he does not understand. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Post Messages to: [email protected] > Subscription Maintenance: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox > OT-free version of this list: > http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech > Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox > This message: > http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are > the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or > medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for > those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious. _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[EMAIL PROTECTED] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
