Publius Maximus wrote: >>> He forces no one while the choice is on the table. you make your >>> choice while you're alive, suffer/enjoy the consequences forever >>> after. >>> >>> >> That's nice of him, by what you tell us here I can easily see he is >> reeeallly merciful ;c) >> > > Actually, He *is* Mercy. > Down to the old game of re-defining terms?
> There is a bit of poetry involved in comprehending the logic of > salvation. Psalms provides most of the required assumptions, upon > which the logical argument stands. As these are metaphysical > assumptions, there is a difficulty for natural man to grasp them, till > his spirit is awakened anyway, and metaphysics becomes real to him. > I understand you. I could also give you all teh metaphysical assumptions that make me think like I think. But alas! You'll only grasp them when you reach my exalted state of mind. >> >> C'mon, you are free to imagine heaven, the gates, the final judgement >> and I don't know how many more tales and I don't get to imagine a Hell >> Party??? >> > > Oh, by all means imagine whatever you like. > Ok, to repay you in kind I give you permission to imagine whatever YOU like. > Just don't be too shocked when you're roasting in the Lake of Fire one > day, instead of playing strip poker, is all. :) > As long as you are not too shocked when, after a boring millennium playing the violin in heaven, you learn that down in hell I've got a presidential suite with good air conditioning (it's hell after all) and all the fun I may wish. >> I cannot concieve that someone who loves ME (that is a personal ME, not >> a generic Me) will be willing to have me as his slave. If I have to have >> a massah then I'd rather be one that doesn't say he "loves" me. >> > > I hear ya. It's a hard one, especially for rich people. Understand > "rich" in this sense to mean anyone blessed in any way above > average---with money, intellect, physical acumen, etc. People who have > much "of themselves" to lay down to make the relationship work have > the hardest time with the concept. > So you had absolutely no problem with the concept I guess. ;c) > God's love for us easier to understand if you have kids. As I have 3 I > can tell you, nothing hurts more than when your kids make a bad > decision, or stop listening to you, and start doing things behind your > back, against your will. You love them, want the best for them, have > some idea of what life is about and want to share it with them---but > they rebel, and they can't help it, it's hardwired in them to rebel. > Some however manage to overcome rebelliousness better than > others---usually, the ones who understand that you love them. > Yep, and I'll still love them no matter how many times or in what way they rebel. And I'll keep bailing them out for ever. And I'll never condemn them to an eternity of suffering. After all, and unlike your god, I love them. Though maybe the difference is I have only one daughter and your god has zillions? Maybe if I had more kids I would be more willing to throw them to hell for eternity? > But even if you don't: Imagine a dad who says "Even though I made you, > you are free to choose whatever daddy you like, all I ask is that IF > you choose me as you're dad, you'll obey everything I say, trusting > that I won't lead you astray and have you're ultimate good at heart. > Christ!!! Just what kind of parents did YOU have !?!? Please! If I'm ever SICK enough to tell those things to a son of mine, please shoot me! > You'll be tested, but you can't ever give up! Once you're mature, > we'll have a kind of relationship for all eternity that will be way > better than anything you can contrive, or anyone else can promise. > Same thing that my dealer told me when trying to push some dope into my hands. > However, there's a cutoff time, after which, you cannot claim me as > your daddy. No father who REALLY loves his children would say that. You love them no matter what, no expiration dates. > Until then, nothing would make me happier than to have you > as my child! I did make you, after all. I'll wait to the last second > of the last minute of the last hour of the last day to receive you > back... but no longer. Alas it is your choice, not mine." > I now understand poor old Lucifer and Asmodeus, Sammael, Lilith, Baliel, etc. I would have also run from such a bastard. BTW, I thought only humans had free will. But it would seem angels have also free will (else how could they rebel). > That's the kind of dad God is. Compared to God, I suck as a parent. > Then you are reeeaaaalllly lousy. > The "slave" concept is slightly overstated... you'll only view > yourself as a slave if you have rebellion against God's love in your > heart. Once you accept his love, obedience feels more like > reciprocation of love. > Yep, you'll only view yourself as my slave if you rebel against me. So GIVE ME YOUR WALLET!!! > People love Jesus' famous saying "The truth shall set you free!" > Except when they see the quote in full context: > > "If you are my disciple, you'll obey my commands. Then you'll know the > truth, and the truth will set you free." > Nothing wrong with this saying (though I find it oddly similar to "Arbeit macht frei"). All he says if that IF you accept to be his disciple you'll obey his commands (no slavery here, the moment you don't accept his commands then you cease to be his disciple). And then promises that by following this discipline you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free (but he is not necessarily talking about any "slavery" nor about being his disciple and obeying his commands, he's probably talking about setting you free from the illusions of this world). --- StripMime Report -- processed MIME parts --- multipart/alternative text/plain (text body -- kept) text/html --- _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[email protected] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
