Grigore, Beautifully written. That's the best explanation of translation challenges and tips I've ever read.
Thank you for taking the time to share your experience in this area!! Regards, Malcolm <intentionally not snipped> ----- Original message ----- From: "Grigore Dolghin" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2010 17:05:01 +0200 Subject: Re: NF Where Options Do I Have with VFP For Multiple Language I have implemented a multi-language interface in my framework as well. I have seen several approaches to multi-language so far, in various tools, but somehow most of them missed a very important point. Unfortunatelly that point is very easy to miss if you're a native English speaker. Namely, the genders, the articulated form and the concatenation of strings. I will come back to this later. Dictionary tables comes first: As you surely know, each language has a code page. Problem is the DBF file can have one single code page, so technically it's impossible to store chinese text and german text in a single DBF. One of them would go nutty. Second, some languages use single-byte character sets (such as English), others use double-byte character sets. In order to unify these character sets, Unicode was invented, but sadly, Visual FoxPro doesn't know how to use that. So you have to keep in mind that if the language you are translating to is a double-byte character set language, all your texts will be double in size for same text length. I personally used the separate dictionary table per language approach. The language names, charset and RTL are stored in a table, and each record of this table has a corresponding dictionary table on disk. When user wants to create a new translation, I just add a record in languages table and create the corresponding dictionary table, which is a copy of English table. Phew. I hope that makes sense. Now the grammar. Rule no 1. NEVER EVER assume anything. For example, in English this is perfectly functional: "Create new <<lcObject>>", where lcObject can be "table", "trigger", "database" or whatever. I've seen applications built that way. Problem is this approach doesn't work in all other languages. They may be some, but definately not all. The most famous are the romance family languages (Italian, French, Spanish, Romanian). There are two distinct problems: 1. These languages have genders for nouns. And guess what, there are three genders. Masculine, Feminine and Neutral. Difference is subtle and I won't get this way in this message. You just keep in mind that "database" and "trigger" behave differently from each other. 2. The word order is different. English is famous for putting the adjective before the noun. Guess what, other languages don't work that way. A quick example: English: Romanian Spanish Create new table Creare tabelă noua Crear la nueva tabla Create new trigger Creare declanşator nou Crear nuevo desencadenador Spot the differences? "new" has same form in english, but different forms in other languages, and that form depends on the word after it. Also the words order is different. By chance, Spanish has same order as english in the above example, but you can't assume this is true for every phrase in every language. 3. The definite/doubtful article. These would be "the" and "a / an" in English. Both of them are placed before the noun. Same goes for french and spanish. But not for Romanian or Swedish, which alter the actual word. Example: English French Romanian Masculine gender: Tree Arbre Copac The tree L'arbre Copacul A tree Un arbre Un copac Feminine gender Flower Fleur Floare The flower La fleur Floarea A flower Une fleur O floare Confusing, isn't it? And not to mention that I don't speak chinese or arabic and God knows what rules they have over there. 4. Actual translation. English is one of the most concise languages in the world. If you plan multilanguage thinking in English only, you're asking for troubles. Let me dig an example. Let's say "Cancel". In Spanish you can translate Cancel to different words, depending on context. If you're breaking an ongoing operation (such as copying a file), the translation would be "Cancelar". But if you're putting the cancel buton next to save (so we have Save and Cancel), the word would be "Anular". To make things even more confusing, Cancelar is synomim with Suprimir, which translated back to English means Delete. Or Cancel definately does NOT mean Delete in English. And old French proverb says "Translations are like women - if they are beautiful, they are not faithful; if they are faithful, they are not beautiful." If you want your application to look natural for a spanish native speaker, ask someone to translate it, string by string, but do not send only the strings. Send screenshots of your app and send the context where that string is used, because the translation depends on that. Thanks for reading this. I will conclude here this long message with the rule I have in my multi-language applications. There's no rule and you can't assume anything. Just translate the text as is. Yeah, that's right, you may end having duplicate tranlations in the dictionary. And who the hell cares? And they're duplicates for one language, but not for another. Just go for storing each and every string found in your application On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Stephen Russell <[email protected]> wrote: > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 8:09 PM, jerryF <[email protected]> wrote: >> I wrote a program for a client of mine who is Spanish, now he wants me to >> rewrite the program in Spanish. Is there any easy way to do this? >> Do I have to modify all of my labels by hand? > ----------------------- > > The bad news is Yes you will have to rewrite the interfaces. The > positive side is your code base should now have new functionality that > you can use over the future. > > The leading add on for Fox has already been stated as well as someone > doing it. So those are the options, spend the money to save time or > roll your own. Back in late 90's we rolled our own. Every screens > dbf file was scanned for labels and when found we put that reference > into a new translation table of elements. We then added the > translation literal table as well as the translation language table. > We then added a function to each screen that updated the label > display. > > At the time we were attempting to sell in Canada and were asked to > present a French version for a limited area. This whole process took > about two days to implement. We added a French text by placing "la" in > front of every text string. We told the client that our crack Cajun > translators ran the first pass but they could tweak it where > necessary. > > What a long strange trip it's been. > > -- > Stephen Russell > > Sr. Production Systems Programmer > CIMSgts > > 901.246-0159 cell > [excessive quoting removed by server] _______________________________________________ Post Messages to: [email protected] Subscription Maintenance: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profox OT-free version of this list: http://leafe.com/mailman/listinfo/profoxtech Searchable Archive: http://leafe.com/archives/search/profox This message: http://leafe.com/archives/byMID/profox/[email protected] ** All postings, unless explicitly stated otherwise, are the opinions of the author, and do not constitute legal or medical advice. This statement is added to the messages for those lawyers who are too stupid to see the obvious.
