"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."
- Henry VI (Part 2), Act IV, Scene II
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 21:36
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Engagement Problems
One lawyer once told me that an oral agreement is worth less than the paper
it is written on.
I suppose you can put too much in writing, but it is good to have enough so
that the client's lawyer will look at it and (you hope) explain your
client's responsibilities to your client. The agreement should have the
legalese, of course, but most importantly, it should spell out the
agreement, who you are, what you do, who your client is and what your client
does. That way the client can look at it before the work starts and both of
you can hash out any differences in each party's understanding.
It is best to have everything as clear as possible and keep the lawyers out
of your pocket and your client's pocket.
Remember, the lawyer does not give a shit about justice or 'doing the right
thing' - s/he only cares about how much money s/he can get out of prolonging
the matter as long as possible. A lawyer's job is to get as much money as
possible out of both parties, nothing else. The worst agreement you can make
is one with a naive client who has not been ripped off by the legal system
and still has to learn that lesson. That client will drag himself/herself
and you into the quicksand, all the while being under the illusion that
his/her lawyer is 'just protecting his/her rights'. Your lawyer will wink at
your client's lawyer and the two of them will do whatever they can to
prolong the matter and get the maximum fees. Shakespeare had a comment about
this many years ago. I was not an English Lit major so I don't remember the
exact words.
----- Original Message -----
From: "geoff" <[email protected]>
To: "'ProFox Email List'" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 5:10 PM
Subject: RE: Engagement Problems
I agree and I have the same book
Geoff Flight
Managing Director
Sustainable Resources Industry Training Pty Ltd
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf
Of Jeff Johnson
Sent: Monday, 20 December 2010 10:23 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Engagement Problems
Anthony and Geoff: You both mention the purpose of the post. I took a
couple of jobs without going through all of the steps that I normally
do. I felt a handshake over a latte was good enough. It is not! And,
I have a ton of books that I forget about. So I was talking to myself
and sharing with you that I am going to pay attention to details and
scan my library for helpful information.
Happy reading!
Anthony, I don't think the version of the book is important (although
Whil may chime in). The content is basically the same and of value.
Jeff
---------------
Jeff Johnson
[email protected]
(623) 582-0323
www.san-dc.com
On 12/19/2010 04:49 PM, Anthony J. Gundrum wrote:
> Very good story.
>
> It's funny you mentioning the Software Developer's Guide because I just
> pulled off the shelf last week. I have the 1999 edition. What year is
the
> edition you have?
>
> I was looking around for some VFP info and flipped through thinking, "Do I
> need this?" Based on what you're say the answer is a resounding, "Yes!"
>
> Thanks for bringing about the reality of things.
>
> John
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]
On
> Behalf Of Jeff Johnson
> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2010 17:00
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Engagement Problems
>
> I recently finished a project for a customer and sent him the invoice.
> He was flabbergasted at the price and also the fact that he did not own
the
> rights to the software (whatever that means to him). He was under the
> impression that I was going to develop the software for him at no charge
and
> he was going to sell it to others. He didn't even figure in an amount for
> me. So basically I develop software for him to start a software business
> and I don't get anything.
>
> What was this guy thinking?!?
>
> I realized that I had become complacent regarding my proposals. I have
> always used them and a signed proposal became a contract. This was a deal
> where we were good old buddies making a deal over a latte and a handshake.
> He did not remember all of our verbal arrangements.
>
> So I basically wrote up an engagement letter, a history of my company and
a
> proposal and said let's start over.
>
> I googled around and looked for software engagement letters because I
> decided rather quickly that I was going to get back to basics. I quickly
> found a great article about engagement letters as well as example
language.
> Fantastic!
>
> Guess what? It was from a book "The Software Developer's Guide, Third
> Edition" by non other than our old friend Whil Hentzen!!!! Guess what
else?
> It is only two feet away from me on my book shelf!
>
> In the spirit of the holidays and looking forward to doing better next
year,
> please look through your library and check out the books that can help you
> get back to basics.
>
> I have a whole library of Whil's books and they all contain valuable
> information that I can't find anywhere else. If you don't have all of his
> books, check them out and you may find one that will help you with your
> business next year.
>
> Whil, I want to thank you for everything you have done for me and the
> community (FoxPro, Linux, etc.) and personally wish you a Merry Christmas!
>
[excessive quoting removed by server]
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