Ian Clark wrote: > > ...I mean, why not put ">" ">." ">:" all on the same page too... > > aren't they supposed to be the same symbol "inflected"? Skip replies:
The novice has no idea that the symbols ">" ">." ">:" are even remotely related in functionality, though they may be similar in appearance. When the novice goes to the main "verbose vocabulary" page with the symbols on it, they will simply click on the symbol they are interested in, to see what it does. They won't have a clue that similar-looking symbols may have similar functions, and the main page isn't the time or place to introduce them to that fact. The main page of the verbose vocabulary should focus on displaying all of the 120-some symbols and their names, each hyperlinked to their individual description/tutorial pages, for easy reference. There shouldn't be too much additional stuff on that page, since additional cryptic or encoded stuff placed around the page will likely cause more confusion than enlightenment to the novice. It could be useful to mention similar-function primitives at the end of each specific primitives' description and tutorial page, with each related symbol hyperlinked to it's own description/tutorial page. That could be a useful part of the template for each primitive in the verbose vocabulary. Raul Said: In all cases I think we should favor "ease of digestion" over "ease of preparation". Skip says: Absolutely! Skip Cave > I don't have a firm opinion on this, yet. > > Treating monadic and dyadic verbs separately will simplify the page > structure. But raises problems getting to the right page from > http://www.jsoftware.com/jwiki/Vocabulary/ > > A novice is faced with a task: "find out more about this word: ">." > > We have a problem supporting that task effectively because he can't > tell us whether he means monadic or dyadic. But that's our problem > --and he has his. I question whether sticking both usages on the same > page represents effective task support, or is just a cop-out. > > ...I mean, why not put ">" ">." ">:" all on the same page too... > aren't they supposed to be the same symbol "inflected"? > > Can we hear from some real novices? That is, ones who are capable of > introspecting while they problem-solve? > > Ian > > > > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 7:14 AM, Skip Cave <s...@caveconsulting.com> wrote: > >> Ian Clark wrote: >> >> That's at most 240 primitives, if monadic and dyadic forms are given their >> own >> wiki pages. >> <> >> That is: to give monadic and dyadic cases of *all* primitives their own >> separate pages. >> >> >> Skip says: >> >> I don't think it is a good idea to give the monadic and dyadic forms of >> primitives separate pages in the reference tutorial. When a novice sees >> a symbol in an expression, they will want to go to the page for that >> symbol. If there are two pages for that symbol, which page do you take >> the novice to, when they click on the symbol on the opening page? >> >> Making the assumption that the novice knows all about monadic and dyadic >> when they first visit the reference tutorial is a bad assumption. Even >> intermediate-level J-ers aren't always able to guess the valence of a >> specific symbol in an expression without taking some time to analyze it. >> The revelation that a function can have single and dual-arguments, which >> can do very different things, is something that should be woven into >> each primitive function description. >> >> One of the key parts of the template for every primitive will be the >> part that makes sure that the novice understands the meaning of monadic >> and dyadic (and other key concepts) before proceeding, no matter what >> primitive they stumble upon first. That is the purpose of the >> exclamation-point and question-mark graphics I proposed previously. >> >> Again, this reference tutorial should be focused on the novice, not the >> intermediate or expert-level J programmers, if we want to use it to >> broaden the usage of J. >> >> The only alternative that I can think of to the "!?" hyperlinked >> graphics in each primitive template would be to have a "beginners go >> here first" link on the J Softwate home page that links to a page >> explaining that symbols can have one or two characters, monadic and >> dyadic usage, and perhaps a couple of other concepts that are crirical >> for the beginner to understand. Even then, other concepts such as rank, >> and parts of speech would possibly be better revealed at points in the >> primitives' description text when the necessity arises. Bringing new >> concepts into a tutorial when they are needed is a tried and true >> educational method, as opposed to trying to explain all the new concepts >> before wading into some actual code. >> >> .Skip Cave >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >> >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
