Well said, Ian.

While I am sure Jami is an experienced designer, and does have some valid
points about "bugs" and "features", his manner is frankly offensive.

Damon Kelly
Hardware Engineer


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2002 18:51
> To: Protel EDA Forum
> Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start!
> 
> 
> On 11:24 PM 31/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
> 
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:09 PM
> >Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
> >
> >
> > > As others have told you, there are reasons some programs 
> misbehave when
> >they
> > > are not the root cause.
> >
> >You really havn't understood all of the posts to this 
> thread, have you?
> 
> 
> I've had enough of your rudeness.
> 
> A lot of people have been trying to be constructive in the 
> face of what is 
> simply rudeness.  I firmly think you should go back over the 
> emails you 
> have sent over the last few weeks and the replies. This is especially 
> galling as some of us have gone out of our way to assist you 
> and you simply 
> throw back flack.
> 
> I have not been responding to the goading you have been 
> attempting.  It is 
> beneath me.
> 
> I have admitted that I made a mistake in thinking you were 
> beta testing 
> DXP.  Your were not.  I was wrong, I said so.  I am not sure 
> you on going 
> attitide is related to that but if it is please lets move on.
> 
> However, your insistence that you are right in some matters that are, 
> frankly, a matter of opinion, is simply foolish and damaging to your 
> standing.  You seem to want to call all aspects of Protel that do not 
> conform to "your way" as bugs.
> 
> Witness:
> 1) You have a preference for the PgUp and PgDn zoom actions 
> to re-centre 
> the screen.  You call this a bug.  Others prefer it.  Others 
> are told they 
> are wrong.  You make a claim the *my* server, that I wrote to 
> calm your 
> original onslaught on joining this forum some time ago, was 
> an admission by 
> me that it is a bug. And then you denigrate my denial that it 
> is anything 
> of the sort. I did you a favour, OK pal.  I spent my time, 
> doing something 
> for you (yep just for you), to show you it could be done and 
> to help you 
> out. (Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:32:34 -0700)
> 2) You have a problem with a mouse and key shortcuts.  This 
> is in fact a 
> known bug in Protel but the solution is related to bugs in 
> the mouse driver 
> that you were supplied with your computer.  Known driver bugs.  Known 
> solution.  Yet you harp on this endlessly.  Others attempt to 
> explain this 
> in a calm manner.  You SHOUT at them. (Wed, 24 Jul 2002 
> 21:57:21 -0700)
> 3) You call the formatting in Protels P&P format a bug.  
> Others are able to 
> use the P&P format but you can't, so it is a bug. Sure, you have to 
> structure you library correctly.  Bug exactly what is a bug.  (Are 
> right-hand drive vehicles buggy, BTW?)
> 4) You made a statement that implied you were surprised when 
> someone came 
> back with a contrary view to yours some time later.  You had 
> taken their 
> previous silence as you having convinced them (rather than 
> the more likely 
> case of you having simply annoyed them). (Fri, 26 Jul 2002 
> 14:18:43 -0700)
> 5) You repeat statements in a fashion only likely to raise 
> tempers, and do 
> nothing for sensible discussion (Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:51:38 -0700)
> 6) You confuse motives, and then argue over the denials. 
> (Tue, 30 Jul 2002 
> 10:44:46 -0700).  This gives me the appearance of arrogance, 
> maybe you do 
> not wish to convey that.
> 7) You are very ready to get personal. (Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:40:59 
> -0700).  What is especially galling about this is that the 
> subject at the 
> time, that you attempted to confuse (deliberately or not) are not 
> related.  The auto-pan bug  in Protel is not related to the 
> manner in which 
> PgUp and PgDn zoom operates.
> 8) You confuse missing features with bugs in the program and 
> then proceed 
> to add snipe comments within your email (Tue, 23 Jul 2002 
> 15:23:08 -0700)
> 
> I think, you need to:
> a) learn to separate bugs from other failings
> b) stop being rude and arrogant
> c) start discussing things in a sane fashion
> 
> Other issues:
> 1) referring to DXP you stated "Realistically, it will almost 
> surely be 
> released prior to October 1st, whether it is ready or not, so 
> as to comply 
> with the "promises" made to all those who bought into ATS, so 
> that they 
> will sign up for yet another year." (Thu, 11 Apr 2002 
> 15:40:44 -0700).  I 
> do not recall seeing a public admission that you were wrong by three 
> quarters of a year.
> 2) In contrast to some of your recent statements (re: Protel 
> on a new Dell 
> computer with new mouse etc), you have previously stated "To 
> give credit 
> where credit is due, the "undocumented feature" dates back far beyond 
> Microsoft and Bill Gates to at least the early days of IBM." 
> (Thu, 11 Apr 
> 2002 15:31:10 -0700) The quote goes on...and the context here 
> is not as 
> simple as this brief quote suggests.  Point is, you have 
> recognised that 
> software is not perfect, yet in some recent claims you have 
> suggested that 
> your new Dell with your new mouse was not the source of the 
> problems you 
> were having.  There is a subtle conflict in these concepts.  
> (Now don't get 
> confused here with the point I am making, I think Protel does 
> have a bug in 
> how it handles the mouse - the mouse should never hose the 
> key shortcuts.)
> 3) You have previously reported problems with Adobe Acrobat 
> (Wed, 27 Mar 
> 2002 15:52:45 -0800) but have recently been using it as an 
> example of how 
> printing should work in Protel.
> 
> That is enough history for now.
> 
> What is my purpose in spending my time doing this?  I value 
> the forum.  I 
> dislike instances where one party of the other is not reading very 
> carefully the answers others are giving.  Bullying is not 
> attractive and is 
> the sort of thing that will cause others to leave the forum.  
> I think that 
> you will find others replies to you have generally been quite 
> calm and 
> reasoned.  Are you confident that your participation is 
> constructive or 
> destructive?
> 
> Your manner is offensive, and you are out of order, sport.  
> Back off, calm 
> down and you will get a better reception.
> 
> I will put it to the group.  Who has played the more 
> constructive role in 
> the forum over the past years.  Who would you most like to shut-up?
> 
> As far as calling bugs-bugs I suggest you need to go back 
> over the archives 
> and see who is calling what what.  One of your favorites has 
> been accused 
> many more time than I of being an Altium sop.
> 
> Now for any others about to chime in - please read this carefully.  I 
> consider Protel to have many bugs.  I started and maintain 
> the users Protel 
> bug list.  If a bug is identified I will be happy to add it 
> to the list and 
> if you look through it you will see I have reported and 
> validated a number 
> of them. My record is clear. I will *not* accept someone else 
> shouting and 
> ranting at me and others as a valid form of discourse for 
> this forum.  Do 
> not make the mistake of every thinking I go soft on Protel or 
> Altium.  Maybe I have a calmer, hopefully more thoughtful, manner of 
> dealing with these things.
> 
> I am not sure, but it seems possible to me that you consider an 
> argument/discussion won when others shut up.  In my case this 
> may not be 
> the case.
> 
> Finger hovering over the JaMi block...
> 
> Ian
> 
> PS. I have just completed over 100 hours of Sch, SPICE, PCB 
> work in Protel 
> without shutting down or having a crash.  My machine is old and slow.
> 
> 
> **************************************************************
> **********
> * Tracking #: FDFFD8C4FABF7444BE6DF3A9980040C36AFA76B6
> *
> **************************************************************
> **********
> 

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* To leave this list visit:
* http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html
*
* Contact the list manager:
* mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
*
* Forum Guidelines Rules:
* http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html
*
* Browse or Search previous postings:
* http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Reply via email to