Well said, Ian. While I am sure Jami is an experienced designer, and does have some valid points about "bugs" and "features", his manner is frankly offensive.
Damon Kelly Hardware Engineer > -----Original Message----- > From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, 1 August 2002 18:51 > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. - Flame start! > > > On 11:24 PM 31/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said: > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 10:09 PM > >Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs. > > > > > > > As others have told you, there are reasons some programs > misbehave when > >they > > > are not the root cause. > > > >You really havn't understood all of the posts to this > thread, have you? > > > I've had enough of your rudeness. > > A lot of people have been trying to be constructive in the > face of what is > simply rudeness. I firmly think you should go back over the > emails you > have sent over the last few weeks and the replies. This is especially > galling as some of us have gone out of our way to assist you > and you simply > throw back flack. > > I have not been responding to the goading you have been > attempting. It is > beneath me. > > I have admitted that I made a mistake in thinking you were > beta testing > DXP. Your were not. I was wrong, I said so. I am not sure > you on going > attitide is related to that but if it is please lets move on. > > However, your insistence that you are right in some matters that are, > frankly, a matter of opinion, is simply foolish and damaging to your > standing. You seem to want to call all aspects of Protel that do not > conform to "your way" as bugs. > > Witness: > 1) You have a preference for the PgUp and PgDn zoom actions > to re-centre > the screen. You call this a bug. Others prefer it. Others > are told they > are wrong. You make a claim the *my* server, that I wrote to > calm your > original onslaught on joining this forum some time ago, was > an admission by > me that it is a bug. And then you denigrate my denial that it > is anything > of the sort. I did you a favour, OK pal. I spent my time, > doing something > for you (yep just for you), to show you it could be done and > to help you > out. (Tue, 23 Jul 2002 16:32:34 -0700) > 2) You have a problem with a mouse and key shortcuts. This > is in fact a > known bug in Protel but the solution is related to bugs in > the mouse driver > that you were supplied with your computer. Known driver bugs. Known > solution. Yet you harp on this endlessly. Others attempt to > explain this > in a calm manner. You SHOUT at them. (Wed, 24 Jul 2002 > 21:57:21 -0700) > 3) You call the formatting in Protels P&P format a bug. > Others are able to > use the P&P format but you can't, so it is a bug. Sure, you have to > structure you library correctly. Bug exactly what is a bug. (Are > right-hand drive vehicles buggy, BTW?) > 4) You made a statement that implied you were surprised when > someone came > back with a contrary view to yours some time later. You had > taken their > previous silence as you having convinced them (rather than > the more likely > case of you having simply annoyed them). (Fri, 26 Jul 2002 > 14:18:43 -0700) > 5) You repeat statements in a fashion only likely to raise > tempers, and do > nothing for sensible discussion (Wed, 31 Jul 2002 21:51:38 -0700) > 6) You confuse motives, and then argue over the denials. > (Tue, 30 Jul 2002 > 10:44:46 -0700). This gives me the appearance of arrogance, > maybe you do > not wish to convey that. > 7) You are very ready to get personal. (Thu, 25 Jul 2002 00:40:59 > -0700). What is especially galling about this is that the > subject at the > time, that you attempted to confuse (deliberately or not) are not > related. The auto-pan bug in Protel is not related to the > manner in which > PgUp and PgDn zoom operates. > 8) You confuse missing features with bugs in the program and > then proceed > to add snipe comments within your email (Tue, 23 Jul 2002 > 15:23:08 -0700) > > I think, you need to: > a) learn to separate bugs from other failings > b) stop being rude and arrogant > c) start discussing things in a sane fashion > > Other issues: > 1) referring to DXP you stated "Realistically, it will almost > surely be > released prior to October 1st, whether it is ready or not, so > as to comply > with the "promises" made to all those who bought into ATS, so > that they > will sign up for yet another year." (Thu, 11 Apr 2002 > 15:40:44 -0700). I > do not recall seeing a public admission that you were wrong by three > quarters of a year. > 2) In contrast to some of your recent statements (re: Protel > on a new Dell > computer with new mouse etc), you have previously stated "To > give credit > where credit is due, the "undocumented feature" dates back far beyond > Microsoft and Bill Gates to at least the early days of IBM." > (Thu, 11 Apr > 2002 15:31:10 -0700) The quote goes on...and the context here > is not as > simple as this brief quote suggests. Point is, you have > recognised that > software is not perfect, yet in some recent claims you have > suggested that > your new Dell with your new mouse was not the source of the > problems you > were having. There is a subtle conflict in these concepts. > (Now don't get > confused here with the point I am making, I think Protel does > have a bug in > how it handles the mouse - the mouse should never hose the > key shortcuts.) > 3) You have previously reported problems with Adobe Acrobat > (Wed, 27 Mar > 2002 15:52:45 -0800) but have recently been using it as an > example of how > printing should work in Protel. > > That is enough history for now. > > What is my purpose in spending my time doing this? I value > the forum. I > dislike instances where one party of the other is not reading very > carefully the answers others are giving. Bullying is not > attractive and is > the sort of thing that will cause others to leave the forum. > I think that > you will find others replies to you have generally been quite > calm and > reasoned. Are you confident that your participation is > constructive or > destructive? > > Your manner is offensive, and you are out of order, sport. > Back off, calm > down and you will get a better reception. > > I will put it to the group. Who has played the more > constructive role in > the forum over the past years. Who would you most like to shut-up? > > As far as calling bugs-bugs I suggest you need to go back > over the archives > and see who is calling what what. One of your favorites has > been accused > many more time than I of being an Altium sop. > > Now for any others about to chime in - please read this carefully. I > consider Protel to have many bugs. I started and maintain > the users Protel > bug list. If a bug is identified I will be happy to add it > to the list and > if you look through it you will see I have reported and > validated a number > of them. My record is clear. I will *not* accept someone else > shouting and > ranting at me and others as a valid form of discourse for > this forum. Do > not make the mistake of every thinking I go soft on Protel or > Altium. Maybe I have a calmer, hopefully more thoughtful, manner of > dealing with these things. > > I am not sure, but it seems possible to me that you consider an > argument/discussion won when others shut up. In my case this > may not be > the case. > > Finger hovering over the JaMi block... > > Ian > > PS. I have just completed over 100 hours of Sch, SPICE, PCB > work in Protel > without shutting down or having a crash. My machine is old and slow. > > > ************************************************************** > ********** > * Tracking #: FDFFD8C4FABF7444BE6DF3A9980040C36AFA76B6 > * > ************************************************************** > ********** > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://email@example.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *