----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Karavidas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

~ ~ ~

> Not to jump all over you, but how do you suppose Altium is supposed to
> fix bugs if we don't report them?

Excellent point Tony,

But I think that there are actually some other priorities too!

I think that the first thing we have to do is pull together as a group, and
"poll" the major players out there on just what we want to do, and how we
can effectively go about doing it.

I think that it really is clear that we want and need a Protel 99 SE SP7.

I also think that we all must realize that Altiums priorities are with DXP
now, and we are not going to get very far if we attempt to draw resources
away from DXP, which I do not believe that we have to do.

I think that we have crossed the major hurdle that was in place in that most
people out there now appear that they are really ready to admit that Protel
99 SE is if fact a software package that has some real serious bugs out
there which are causing some real stability issues and problems, and is in
fact flaky, and that Protel / Altium has never appeared willing to admit to
any of this, nor have some of it's staunchest supporters.

But the facts appear to speak for themselves.

Protel / Altium will just have to face the facts.

I think that if Protel /Altium are faced with a unified front from their
customers and users, I think that we actually can get a lot of things done.

I think that another major issue and hurdle is also about to fall into
place, or actually out of the way, and that is the issue of DXP. Many are
ready to abandon Protel 99 SE in order to jump on the DXP band wagon,
thinking that all of their software problems and shortcommings will go away
once we get past DXP SP1 and learn how to operate DXP.

What many of those people do not understand is that even if all of the code
was rewritten, by an entirely new team of programmers, the environment and
mentality that allowed this to happen with Protel 99 SE is still very much
entrenched at Protel / Altium, and that means that the same thing will
happen with DXP, unless the customers and users confront Protel / Altium and
let them know that this type of programming and lack of support cannot be
allowed to continue.

I don't think that it is going to take much to convince most people out
there that unless we as a group demand more from Protel / Altium, we are
simply not going to get it.

Many of those people will soon find that the current attentiveness of Protel
/ Altium management in the DXP forum and their willingness in trying to get
things worked out with DXP, is only  a temporary situation brought about by
the need to start collecting annual renewals for ATS in just a little over 2
weeks now, in an attempt to head off a PR and Financial Disaster, not to
mention potential legal issues.

As soon as they can convince enough people that DXP is really working, so
that they can start collecting revenue from ATS as well as new DXP sales, we
will see that support in the forum evaporate, and we will be in exactly in
the same position that we have been in with Protel 99 SE for the past
however many  years.

And it is not even as simple as that, not only since any new code base not
only has its own new problems, but not every thing in DXP is in fact new,
which means that there may be some old problems sneaking into the mix.

So as I was saying, I think that we need to organize ourselves and come to a
consensus as to our direction, and if we cannot get everyone's support, we
can at least request that everyone ackwiess [sic?] to not interfere with an
otherwise unified attempt to get things done.

I then think that we need to sort out just exactly what it is that we think
we want to accomplish, and go from there.

Then I would say then comes the compilation of the real bug list.

One of the things that I have tried to make very clear, but I am not too
sure that I have been able to do, is to let everyone know that I do not
expect Protel / Altium to have to continue to support Protel 99 SE.

I am not asking for that.

What I am asking for is to have Protel / Altium make an effort co meet its
customers and users in the middle ground somewhere, and make one last effort
to fix some of the remaining problems with Protel 99 SE so that it can
continue to be used, without some of its current problems, by all of its
current customers and users, at least up and to the point that DXP is in
fact a real and viable product.

Then if Protel / Altium wants to abandon Protel 99 SE, since they obviously
appear to feel that they cannot develop it any further, then so be it.

But actually, I really I believe that with one more Service Pack, Protel 99
SE could be transformed into a very stable, useable, middle of the road
product that they could continue to sell just as is, for many years to come,
just as it is, with out any new development.

More importantly, those customers and users who have bought into Protel 99
SE relatively recently, but are just not ready for whatever reason to step
up to DXP, will be able to continue using a much more stable version of the
Protel 99 SE product they paid good money for, rather than being totally
abandoned by Protel / Altium with Protel 99 SE left in it's current unstable

At a very minimum, a concerted effort at this time by all customers and
users to really attempt to get to the bottom of some of these bugs, now that
we have gotten past our first hurdle above, will at the very least leave
those people who continue to use Protel 99 SE with a fairly well researched
bug list and understanding of pitfalls and things not to do if you do not
want it to crash.

First and foremost, most of us have jobs to do, and projects that must get
finished, so I think that one of the important things that we must do is to
respect each other's time constraints.

This means nothing will happen overnight.

But it also means that if we all do a little, then we really can get things

That said, I nominate you all for the SP7 committee, and I will now go to


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