Hi Juan, OK, if we're specifically talking about the Clips list, as I mentioned earlier, I agree that this is an area that needs to be improved. However,to say that a blind user is "losing 50%" as you put it, is, in my opinion, not at all accurate. For a blind user who happens to need to import and position a lot of files, this would clearly be a nuisance. No question, it's a workflow issue that, at this point, needs some attention.
I'm hopeful that, with a macro, it might be possible to streamline the process of dragging from the Clip list I'll experiment a bit and will share results at some point. Cheers, Slau On Sep 27, 2014, at 8:14 PM, Juan Pablo <jpcula...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear slau, thanks again for your extremely patience and polite. > I'm reffering about dragging files from the clip list. > > Best, > Juan. > -----Original Message----- From: Slau Halatyn > Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 9:09 PM > To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: discovery about nudge value > > Hi Juan, > > I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused about your current question. I'm not sure > exactly what you're trying to either ask or say. Dragging files from the Clip > list (or Region list, as it is sometimes called) is certainly possible with > VoiceOver but it's a multi-step process that is not at all efficient and, > frankly, sometimes it just inexplicably doesn't seem to work. That type of > drag and drop is somewhat different from dragging and dropping within the > timeline. > > It's the action of dragging and dropping within the timeline that is > essentially impossible for a blind user much in the same way throwing darts > is not accessible. That doesn't mean a blind user couldn't conceivably throw > a dart but what would be the point? If a blind person is told that the > bullseye is exactly 5 and a half feet from the floor and exactly 8 and three > quarter feet from the left wall and if the blind dart thrower could punch in > a number to have the dart automatically be put at those coordinates, what's > the point of throwing it? We have a few methods to edit and position regions > with sample accuracy through keyboard shortcuts. > > A sighted user can zoom out of a timeline, see the region they've just > highlighted, look down the timeline and see a space where the copied or > dragged region should go. They can see the timeline and, in general terms see > the approximate time where the region needs to go. They still have to > position it more precisely once it's in the general vicinity. They have to > zoom in, reposition the region, possibly use the grid or just audition the > region in context to see if it's in the right place. Yes, there is an > advantage to be able to see an overview of the timeline but that's something > that a blind user will never have the ability to do. It's simply the nature > of being blind, not being able to see what would take a thousand words to > describe. > > Now, here's an example of a real advantage is for a sighted user: If you > needed to select non-contiguous files from several tracks and move them all > at the same time. For example if you had a region on track 1 from 3 seconds > to 10 seconds, a region on track 2 from 4 seconds to 9 seconds and a region > on track 3 from zero seconds to twenty seconds, a sighted user could use the > grabber tool and select those three regions which appear on three tracks at > different times by Shift-clicking with the grabber tool and, in one motion, > drag them to a different part of the timeline or nudge them or whatever. > Again this is something that a blind user simply cannot do. Let me say this, > however, I've been using a digital audio workstation since 1994 and I've > never had to perform the aforementioned action, ever, not even once. That > doesn't mean that it might not come up some time in the future. I doubt it > will but, if it does, I'll take more time and do each track separately. > > I hope that clarifies a few things. > > Best regards, > > Slau > > On Sep 27, 2014, at 2:24 PM, Juan Pablo <jpcula...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Slau, sorry for my lack of knoledge. But what's the way to drag and drop >> from the clip list? When I talked about drag and drop, I'm reffering to your >> second part of your message. >> Best, Juan. >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Slau Halatyn >> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2014 3:19 PM >> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: discovery about nudge value >> >> Hi Juan, >> >> I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. Drag and drop is just something a >> blind person cannot do. How would you propose this would work? Cut, copy and >> paste is perfectly fine in addition to nudging and spotting. What can't you >> do in the timeline with drag and drop that you can't do with the commands I >> mentioned? Now, if you're talking about dragging from the Clips list into a >> timeline, then yes, there needs to be a more elegant solution th an what we >> currently have. I can see that possibly being implemented in the future but >> that's a matter of introducing a new way, or at least an alternative way, of >> performing specific actions. This would take more resources and more >> supporting arguments. >> >> Slau >> >> On Sep 27, 2014, at 1:24 PM, Juan Pablo <jpcula...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi, Slau. Is fact: protools is advancing to a fully accessible soft. but in >>> my opinion, with the time line not accessible, We're lossing at least 50% >>> of this powerful tool. Yes, there are lots of sortcuts that made this tings >>> in a diferent way. but has the hability to drag and dropp, would be a big >>> jump. I hope in pt12 we've good news on this. >>> best, Juan. >>> -----Original Message----- From: Slau Halatyn >>> Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 1:27 PM >>> To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: discovery about nudge value >>> >>> Folks, >>> >>> One of the features for which I've been campaigning on the accessibility >>> with on the Pro Tools front has been the nudge value field. In earlier >>> versions of Pro Tools, it was not specifically accessible but one could at >>> least press the button, type a value, press Return and at least the custom >>> field was entered and one could go about their business with the new nudge >>> value. Now, if you don't know why a custom nudge value is important, never >>> mind for now and trust me when I say that it'll save your ass at some >>> point, guaranteed. >>> >>> well, in Pro Tools 11, the interface changed a bit and now at least we >>> could see the Nudge Controls button which popped up the format selection >>> and default values. Thing is, now we couldn't enter the custom value. I >>> submitted a bug report and nothing seemed to change because other items >>> like the MIDI Event List took precedence, understandably. >>> >>> Well, only yesterday, I stumbled upon what I can only call a discovery, for >>> lack of a better word because it was truly hidden. Unfortunately, a bit of >>> a misnomer was incorporated when one of the programmers worked on the nudge >>> and grid controls. In the edit window, there is a Grid/Nudge cluster. That >>> naming convention was inherited from the initial work of PT accessibility >>> in version 8. When interacting, you find 3 items labeled "Show Grid Lines" >>> (which is either selected or not), "Grid Controls button" and "Nudge >>> Controls button" Clicking on the first button toggles its state of either >>> showing or not showing grid lines in the timeline. Clicking either of the >>> two remaining buttons pops up a list of formats and default values as >>> mentioned earlier. >>> >>> Yesterday, as I was making a macro to double-click on the nudge value field >>> to at least be able to once again enter custom nudge values, I needed to >>> quickly navigate to the Nudge Control button and so I brought up the Item >>> Chooser list and typed n u d g e. Surprisingly, the list contained several >>> items rather than just the one I was expecting. It contained a text field >>> labeled "Nudge" and a numeric field labeled "Nudge value." I had never seen >>> this before and was stunned. To my astonishment, having selected the nudge >>> value field, I purposely stopped interacting with the control to see where >>> it was nested. To my surprise, it was nested in the "Nudge Controls >>> button." Well, of course, a VoiceOver user would never think to interact >>> with a button because that's not the function of a button. In fact, upon >>> retrying with another session, simply navigating to the Nudge Controls >>> button and interacting with it simply interacts with the title of the >>> button itself rather than its alleged contents. Bringing up the Item >>> Chooser, however, indeed exposes the hidden controls. Further, once >>> accessed, interacting and exiting interaction with the button seems to >>> traverse the levels repeatedly. >>> >>> Bottom line is, if you need to type a custom nudge value, and I promise >>> you, you will at some point, use the Item Chooser to get to the Nudge Value >>> numeric field, click once and type the custom value, hit Return and be on >>> your way. >>> >>> This is an issue of nomenclature mostly but also the non-standard manner in >>> which a control was defined. It's really not a button but a group of >>> controls or a cluster, if you will. So, it's confusing until you know what >>> it truly is. I'm explaining this so that, when others ask, more people on >>> the list know about this quirk. That said, I'm relieved that the issue of >>> access to the nudge value was addressed, albeit in a non-standard way, >>> because it's truly one of the quality-of-life issues that kept me from >>> moving to Pro Tools 11 full time. For me, this was a big one. There are a >>> few others that are being addressed in beta that will be resolved soon, I'm >>> sure. >>> >>> Anyway, just sharing the info. >>> >>> Slau >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Pro Tools Accessibility" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to ptaccess+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
