On Fri, Oct 26, 2007 at 03:12:48AM -0400, Matt Feifarek wrote:
>     Definitely use easy_install for Pylons and its dependencies
> 
> Thanks all. Amazing, something upon which everyone agrees!

Actually not. But I'm a bit tired of voicing my opinion and I can
imagine that others may be tired of my opinion either. Python developers
tend to rely on ez_setup/setuptools and they are partly right: you get
the newest packages with more-or-less proper dependencies in the way
that the (upstream) developer intended. But on the other hand
Debian/Ubuntu has a very sophisticated software package management for a
decade. And it's mostly unwise to install files into your system
manually without your software management knowing about it and any
chance of ever getting rid of them again. easy_setup/tools is the "I
have Windows 95 and if it ever breaks because it couldn't stand 20
pieces of software installed together then I'll just reinstall". Install
three different versions through ez_install and then install the actual
Ubuntu package, too. Welcome to the mess.

If you are serious about up-to-date Pylons programming then consider
using an up-to-date distribution branch (Ubuntu or Debian *unstable*).
Then you get all the new software without any gotchas. The packages in
there are very up-to-date (0-2 days delay). So it's absolutely wrong if
people say you can't keep up with the newest versions. If you chose the
"stable" branches of your distribution then you did so deliberately
because you don't want breakage during a stable cycle. If you can't wait
to have the newest versions (and since Pylons is moving quickly it
absolutely makes sense) then update your OS. I know that some people
complain that software on Debian is too old. No it is not. They just
didn't understand the reason why there is "stable" and "unstable".

Just imagine what happens if you ez_install Pylons and later some
application in your system decides it wants to "aptitude install
python-pylons". Yes, you will have two versions on your system and it
depends on the faith of the universe which version your application will
use. And that's the best thing that can happen. In the worst case you'll
bork your package manager because it finds files in places it didn't
expect them.

There are really only two decent choices:
 - A bootstrapped Python environment (workingenv, virtualpython)
   (but closely watch out for security updates because your OS won't
   care what you do here and if you forget one of them some korean kids
   will come for a visit)
 - Using the "unstable" brach of your distribution
   (risks breakage if you globally update a package on your server
   but the Pylons application wasn't ready for that version jump)

Some people (here) claim that they don't get trouble if they install
everything into $HOME or /usr/local because APT won't touch that. And
they know exactly whether Pylons is installed using ez_setup/setuptools
or via APT. But if you are doing a lot with Python you will sooner or
later have APT install some dependency package unwittingly and there you
are in the mud.

It's not Pylons's fault. It's merely a problem that the creator of the
setuptools didn't care for the needs of Linux distributions that come
with some kind of package management. Redhat has just recently
discovered they have the same problem. So it's not just something a mad
Debian developer has come up to confuse the world. :)

So for Guido's sake... don't make your OS unhappy.

Kindly
 Christoph


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