Amen, brother! Sent from a phone, please excuse the brevity.
On 01.02.2012, at 09:03, Rob Miller <[email protected]> wrote: > These are reasonable points to make. But Pyramid is explicitly not trying to > be the same thing that either Django or Rails is trying to be. Those are what > we call "opinionated" frameworks, which make things easier on less > experienced developers by making many choices for them. This usually comes at > a cost; you lose flexibility, and you have to wrestle w/ the framework when > you realize that the choice you want to make isn't in fact the one your tool > has made. > > Pyramid has some opinions, sure, but far fewer of them. It's intended to > strike the right balance between flexibility, performance, and ease of use > for more experienced developers. Some people complain about certain features > b/c "I'm never gonna need this, and it confuses me, can't we just rip it > out?" But in every case that feature is there b/c SOMEone had to solve a hard > problem and that was the best way to do it. Ripping it out would make those > hard problems harder to solve. But Pyramid targets those hard problems, and > thus the features stay. > > This case w/ globals is similar, although slightly inverted. In many cases > module-level global settings are fine; they make the developers life a little > bit easier, and they don't cause any problems. But in some cases they *do* > cause problems. Real, honest to god developer pain. Django and Pylons have > both hit this in the real world. For Django it's fine, it's a trade-off that > makes sense given their philosophy and their target audience. For Pyramid it > doesn't, b/c Pyramid is just as interested in reducing developer friction in > the hard cases as it is the easy cases, and so they make a different set of > trade-offs. > > Does this mean that Pyramid will never be as widely used as Django? Probably. > Does that matter? Nope. > > -r > > On 1/31/12 8:16 PM, Jonathan Vanasco wrote: >> my .02ยข is this: >> >> App Developers like features like 'Globals'. It's something that is >> familiar-from, and present-in many other frameworks. >> >> Granted, pyramid is a low-level framework - and one that a more >> 'webmonkey' friendly framework might be built upon itself. But those >> frameworks are likely to end up implementing those features >> themselves... both in bad ways, and in many numerous different ways. If >> pyramid can find a way to pull it off correctly, it would be great. >> >> Rails didn't succeed because it was a "great framework", its success is >> largely do to it being usable-by and appealing-to really bad developers >> ( i mean really awful ones ). PHP got to be ubiquitous and installed on >> every platform, by just doing a shoddy job implementing everything, so >> even the worst developers flocked to it. People I've been introduced to >> by recruiters as "Top Django Pros!" commanding 160k salaries, have been >> robots that barely know python. >> >> I loved pylons, I love pyramid. I only get to code about 20% of my time, >> and love being able to work in them, because they're implemented in a >> way that really resonates with how I like to work. The problem though, >> is that I'm usually running operations, tech or product at a company -- >> not implementing it. Having to source people to execute on goals is a pain. >> >> I understand why "technically" some things might not be right or ideal, >> and why they shouldn't be done -- but sometimes the best route for >> adoption and continued health isn't to do the "right" thing. >> >> sorry for ranting on this. >> /j >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "pylons-discuss" group. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/pylons-discuss/-/ddSQnMKjZZ4J. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> [email protected]. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "pylons-discuss" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "pylons-discuss" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/pylons-discuss?hl=en.
