On 03.05.2018 1:01, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
On Wed, 2 May 2018 22:54:04 +0100
Paul Moore <p.f.mo...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2 May 2018 at 22:37, Antoine Pitrou <solip...@pitrou.net> wrote:
To elaborate a bit: the OP, while angry, produced both a detailed
analysis *and* a PR. It's normal to be angry when an advertised
feature doesn't work and it makes you lose hours of work (or, even,
forces you to a wholesale redesign). Producing a detailed analysis and a
PR is more than most people will ever do.
His *other* email seems reasonable, and warrants a response, yes. But
are we to take the suggestion made here (to drop tkinter) seriously,
based on the fact that there's a (rare - at least it appears that the
many IDLE users haven't hit it yet) race condition that causes a crash
in Python 2.7? (It appears that the problem doesn't happen in the
python.org 3.x builds, if I understand the description of the issue).
In 3.x, Tkinter+threads is broken too, albeit in a different way -- see
https://bugs.python.org/issue33412 (this should've been the 2nd link in
the initial message, sorry for the mix-up).
The 2.x bug also shows in 3.x if it's linked with a nonthreaded version
of Tcl (dunno how rare that is, but the code still supports this setup).
I and others actually suggested it seriously in the past. Now,
admittedly, at least IDLE seems better maintained than it used to
be -- not sure about Tkinter itself.
Nor do I think the tone of his message here is acceptable - regardless
of how annoyed he is, posting insults ("no-one gives a damn") about
volunteer contributors in a public mailing list isn't reasonable or
constructive. Call that "playing speech police" if you want, but I
think that being offended or annoyed and saying so is perfectly
reasonable.
Will all due respect, it's sometimes unpredictable what kind of wording
Anglo-Saxons will take as an insult, as there's lot of obsequiosity
there that doesn't exist in other cultures. To me, "not give a damn"
reads like a familiar version of "not care about something", but
apparently it can be offensive.
Confirm, never meant this as an insult.
I had to use emotional language to drive the point home that it's not
some nitpick, it really causes people serious trouble (I lost a source
of income, for the record).
Without the emotional impact, my message could easily be ignored as some
noise not worth attention. This time, it's just too damn important to
allow this possibility.
The module being abandoned and unused is truly the only explanation I
could think of when seeing that glaring bugs have stayed unfixed for 15
years (an infinity in IT), in an actively developed and highly used
software.
This may be flattering for my ego, but if the module really is in any
production use to speak of, then in all these years, with all this
humongous user base, someone, somewhere in the world, at some point,
should have looked into this. I don't even program in C professionally,
yet was able to diagnose it and make a PR!
---
I'll make a PR with the doc warning as Guido suggested unless there are
any better ideas.
Meanwhile, I'd really appreciate any response to my other message -- it
is about actually fixing the issue, and I do need feedback to be able to
proceed.
No need to delve all the way in and give an official authorization or
something. I'm only looking for an opinion poll on which redesign option
(if any) looks like the most reasonable way to proceed and/or in line
with the big picture (the last one -- to provide a unifying vision -- is
_the_ job of a BDFL IIRC).
Regards
Antoine.
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--
Regards,
Ivan
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