On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 8:03 AM, Robert Nimax <
robert.ni...@inform-software.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
> I think, the big benefit is the qooxdoo core development team. There are
> really good developers, architects and so on working every day on that
> framework. Qooxdoo is driven by industry and that makes the difference to a
> lot of other open source frameworks out there. Even if you´d choose
> Microsoft or any other big player technologies, you can´t be sure that it
> will be supported in the future. Decisions like that are a game of pure
> chance. But you got the source code and qooxdoo sources are very
> professional, that is, you will be able to read and understand the source
> code. I have been thinking about founding something like a rescue company,
> so everyone who like and needs qooxdoo can take part und help to keep this
> framework alive - in case that 1&1 would stop this framework. What do you
> guys think about it ?
>
My past two jobs have been using exclusively ExtJS as the front end of the
applications. In each case, all the developers were sick and tired of the
buggy code, the extremely steep upgrade paths, and the anemic community
that surrounds it. But in both cases, the bean counters in the company were
ecstatic that they could pay for a license (OSS licenses often don't fly
well during business evaluations of libraries).
Earlier this week some other team members were wondering as to why our
company would stick with ExtJS when it is clearly an inferior product.
Based on what my previous employer stated, it really boils down to a
limited liability. If a product is purely open source and a company gets a
year or even more into a project that relies heavily on it only to discover
a fundamental bug in the library, they can have no assurances that this bug
will ever be fixed by the core maintainers. This could result in either a
year of lost development effort as said OSS library is replaced or an
unknown quantity of resources which the company would need to devote to
fixing the bug and then maintaining patch sets against the core library.
This type of potentially unbounded liability is scary to corporate bean
counters. When those folk look at ExtJS they can point to a service level
agreement from Sencha that clearly states if a significant bug exists they
can turn that bug over to Sencha and it will be fixed or patched or their
core developers will help us come up with a workaround. Sure, it might cost
thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars/euros/pounds/rubles per year
for that SLA but the costs are known beforehand.
For a small library like jQuery which is relatively easily replaceable or a
patch set can be maintained with relative ease, the above problem is less
drastic. But for a large framework like Qooxdoo or ExtJS, replacing the
library or maintaining patch sets is a non-trivial problem. Being able to
hand that business risk off to another entity is very worthwhile to many
businesses. So perhaps an offering of a similar "safety net" for Qooxdoo
might advance its cause in the corporate marketplace.
For as good as qx is, I've only ever met one single developer besides
myself who was even aware of its existence. At least here in the USA, ExtJS
is king in corporate JavaScript frameworks.
--Greg
> The qooxdoo approach is kind of unconventional (OO, Build process, ...) or
> let´s say offbeat in comparison to other javascript frameworks that are
> unobtrusive. This is hard to understand for other developers and maybe they
> just don´t get direct access to that framework because they are blinded by
> their habits.
>
> Cheers,
> Rob.
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards
>
> Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Robert Nimax
> Geschäftsbereich Inventory & Supply Chain
> INFORM GmbH, Pascalstraße 23, 52076 Aachen, Germany
> Telefon: (+49) 2408 9456-1700, Fax: (+49) 2408 9456-1750
> E-Mail: robert.ni...@inform-software.com, Web:
> http://www.inform-software.com
> INFORM Institut für Operations Research und Management GmbH
> Registered AmtsG Aachen HRB1144 Gfhr. Adrian Weiler
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Werner Thie [mailto:wer...@thieprojects.ch]
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 18. April 2013 14:43
> An: Robert Nimax; qooxdoo Development; tedi tedi
> Betreff: Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Răspuns: Question
>
> Hi
>
> so, only what the masses use (and understand) is good?
>
> That's why PHP (Pretty Home Page, tsk) has such a following, being what
> BASIC was in the seventies of the previous millenium?
>
> With your gauges adjusted like that, you have to seek elsewhere, but
> looking at it from an efficiency standpoint then:
>
> - Qooxdoo is probably the soundest framework in JS-land because it is
> technically and conceptually clean and mature.
>
> - It is also very lenient and easy to combine with other JS libraries,
> frameworks and concepts, without selling your soul to qooxdoo.
>
> - It has a very predictable growth path, with almost no technical hurdles
> in my way for the last five years, allowing me to keep everything up to
> date on the route to HTML5/CSS3
>
> - If 1&1 pulls the plug, you've got a least one to two years to bail out
> and find the next best framework. After all, this is OpenSource!
>
> My two cents of course, I run quite a few commercial websites in the card
> game area with more than 60k games played to the end per day, all done with
> qx, allowing me to concentrate on developing new stuff instead of worrying
> about a leap frogging library underneath. What I don't do and what my
> customers also do not want, is promoting qooxdoo and bragging about it, we
> use it - with all the thanks going to a great maintainer team and 1&1 for
> keeping them alive!
>
> Mahalo and have fun, Werner
>
>
>
> On 4/18/13 11:41 AM, tedi tedi wrote:
> > Yes, the name might make some people think it's not serious enough,
> > cause it sounds funny and some don't know how to pronounce it.
> >
> > Anyway, I guess I'm measuring the popularity of a framework by how
> > many applications are out there, created with that framework.
> >
> > I did see some writen in GWT ( not created by google ), and I
> > understand that there are a lot of people knowing Java, but i think
> > there is a good majority of people that use Apache as a webserver, and
> > not Apache Tomcat, and GWT kind of requires servlets, i mean you could
> > talk with a PHP server script, but you lose all the beauty of the
> > framework. So I guess that's why I don't like GWT.
> >
> > I also saw a lot of applications or modules created with ExtJS, I also
> > heard about people that were looking for ExtJS developers.
> >
> > I didn't find a qooxdoo application out there, that's still in use. I
> > know about the list that's on the site (
> > http://qooxdoo.org/community/real_life_examples ) but that's not
> > enough
> >
> > I'm a bit worried about the fact that 1and1 does not use qooxdoo on
> > their website, I mean their Control Panel, for thier hosting service.
> > And i'm worried that qooxdoo is almost 7 years old now, and it still
> > has such a small comunity. Maybe it's going to die at some time, or
> > maybe
> > 1&1 will stop investing in it
> >
> > I mean, when Adobe made Flex (or ActionScript) there were a lot of
> > people that made a lot of small applications using their tool, but
> > qooxdoo is used only by you guys, Why isn't there a company that
> > relies on qooxdoo? SPAR's online store doesn't use qooxdoo anymore and
> > lots of link from the real_live_examples are dead.
> >
> > Those are not good signs, as much as I really like qooxdoo.
> >
> > PS: Only one book writen about qx? :-\
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -- *De la:* thron7 <thomas.herchenroe...@1und1.de>
> > *Către:* qooxdoo Development <qooxdoo-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > *Trimis:* Joi, 18 Aprilie 2013 12:04:24
> > *Subiect:* Re: [qooxdoo-devel] Question
> >
> >
> > On 04/17/2013 01:02 PM, tedi tedi wrote:
> >> How come qooxdoo is not as popular as GWT or ExtJS ?
> >
> > That's a tough question to answer. You don't get much feedback from
> > people that decide against a technology ;-). It's also a question
> > about how you measure being popular. You could say popularity for a JS
> > framework is measured by the number of *developers* using it to create
> > applications. Being a deverloper tool that would be a decent measure
> > of popularity in my view. But you could also say it's the number of
> > *users* using applications written with qooxdoo. Wouldn't an
> > application with a million users speak towards the underlying
> > framework?! And in the latter respect I think qooxdoo doesn't fare that
> badly.
> >
> > But even if you stick with the #developers measure - how do you assess
> > it?! Number of downloads of the SDK?! Number of queries on Google?! If
> > you e.g. look at Google Trends you will find that the number of
> > queries related to Perl have significantly decreased over the years.
> > Does that mean the number of developers has decreased, or fallen below
> > all other scripting languages? Or just that it has become so easy and
> > common-sense to go directly to the relevant information that fewer
> > people need to search for it?! Python and Ruby on the other hand have
> > relatively stable query counts over the last years. Does that mean
> > their user bases have stalled?!
> >
> > Anyway, I would tend to think that there are fewer developers using
> > qooxdoo than GWT or ExtJS. With GWT it's easy to explain as GWT is a
> > strong web development platform for *Java* programmers. Alll shops
> > with Java skills would naturally slant towards GWT. I'm not so sure
> > about ExtJS. I don't think it is about technical merits (nor about
> > marketing efforts as some people have it). Rather, my impression is
> > far fewer people take a deeper look at qooxdoo. Maybe things like the
> > name, the class and developement model or the intertwining with the
> > tool chain alienate people on first sight, especially when they live
> > west of the Atlantic. Which is a catalyst market for many things in IT.
> >
> > T.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > _______________________________________________
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> > qooxdoo-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > <mailto:qooxdoo-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > qooxdoo-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
> >
>
>
>
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