Le 31 mai 2014 02:45, "thron7" <[email protected]> a écrit :
>
> Let me throw in one aspect concerning the new contrib system:
>
> It maintained the original idea of shiftig load from *using* a
> contribution to *maintaining* that contribution. The unbeloved hash
> sum over a contribution has the sole purpose to allow for *automatic
> freshness checks*. Downloading a contribution is part of the usual
> build step when developing, done by the Generator behind the scenes,
> not a separate step. That's it.
>
> This differs from all other popular systems (including NPM!), which
> require the user of a contribution to separately take care of
> downloading/installing it, besides using it in builds (think of 'npm
> install' vs. 'grunt build'). So you could say that the qooxdoo
> approach is more comfortable for the contribution users, which seemed
> like a good idea at one point. But maybe it doesn't have to be that
> way.
>
> Maybe the right balance between authors and users of contributions
> would be to put a little more load on the users by requiring an
> explicit download step for the contributions. This would make the
> contrib infrastructure much simpler, and would give the users of it
> more control when a particular contrib they are using is being updated
> on their local system. It would also require them to actively check
> for updates for any of them. But as this pattern is so common
> nowadays, maybe nobody would feel offended.
>
> The discussion in this thread was largely a contrib authors'
> discussion, and I haven't seen contrib users raise their voices.
I'm not a contribution author and not really a contribution user because
there is no real contribution on qooxdoo.
On npm I have 3 or 4 packages and I've contributed to ~20 contribution
providing patches or but reports.
If I contribute more on npm it's because I understand how to contribute,
it's easy. On qooxdoo I have a genera idea of how to write a contribution
(because there is fee examples) and no idea of the process.
In my idea of the process I think there is an approval (even if it's just
an action and not a judgement) of the contribution by the qooxdoo team it
takes me more time and I can't use the contribution immediately, there is
no direct benefit for me. On npm I contribute because I need this package
and it's easier for me to publish this package than to copy/sync this
package to all my projects. On open source ecosystem there is no
user/author. An author is a user and a user become author. You are an
author when you provide feedback. Everybody on this list is a qooxdoo
contributor.
Qooxdoo is gonna die and even if it's not a priority for one&one to have a
community it's very interesting for one&one that qooxdoo don't become a
burthen. You are *excellents* computer engineers you've made this library
leading by far in terms of computer science many years ago but you never
had any plan for creating a community and you never had a designer that
could make people desire using this library. Look at extjs the first well
known version was very bad but the design was so great that everybody
wanted to use it. Look at node it looks so easy to create a project (and I
can tell you it's far from the reality when you create medium size
projects) that you instantly have a giant community. Look at npm everybody
can add a contribution in 5 minutes and you have 76000 contribution (~10
with a good quality ;)
Maybe it's too late, I was one of the qooxdoo supporter (and I don't think
we are many) and I will probably not use qooxdoo anymore, that make me sad.
Maybe
> it's about time to shift a little load back to the users and separate
> downloading contribs into an independent and explicit Generator step.
>
> My 2c,
> T.
>
> On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 6:49 PM, John Spackman <[email protected]>
wrote:
> > Hi Petr
> >
> > I don’t think it needs to be split – that’s what the generator is for,
to
> > assemble just the bits that are needed by your app. There is a fairly
> > large core of classes which are always needed, and maybe something
could be
> > done to reduce those dependencies, but any such optimisation would only
> > affect small applications.
> >
> > If anything, it is debatable whether there should be a distinction
between
> > Desktop/Server/Mobile because the generator can put together just what
your
> > app needs.
> >
> > Qooxdoo is not particularly light weight; AIUI that’s what the ”website”
> > version was created to do, not that I’ve used it. However Qooxdoo is
suited
> > to building large apps (one of my apps is 146,000 lines of unminified
JS)
> > and that’s a different use case.
> >
> > I don’t think there is an inherent issue with wrapping existing, well
> > written libraries in a Qooxdoo-compatible class (e.g. a rich text
editor,
> > jqPlot, etc), but there is little motivation in making a contrib of
anything
> > if there isn’t anyone to use it.
> >
> > That’s a circular argument of course: shrinking user base == less users
want
> > to contrib == product gets dated == less users want to start using it
== etc
> > etc.
> >
> > John
> >
> > From: Petr Kobalíček <[email protected]>
> > Reply-To: qooxdoo Development <[email protected]>
> > Date: Wednesday, 28 May 2014 14:40
> >
> > To: qooxdoo Development <[email protected]>
> > Subject: Re: [qooxdoo-devel] New contrib website
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > From my perspective - I think that what is becoming a problem as well
is its
> > monolithic architecture. Qooxdoo is not modular, every time I use it I
feel
> > like working 15 years back on some C++ project. JS is a very dynamic
> > language and I think it should be used that way also in Qooxdoo (split
the
> > core, components, make it modular and just minify).
> >
> > Second problem is that a lot of contributions are wrapping third party
code
> > into a "qooxdoo way". This is ridiculous - if there is a good third
party
> > library one should be able to use it even without rewriting the whole
API
> > into qooxdoo style.
> >
> > There are another things as well, look at Angular for example how easy
> > databinding can be.
> >
> > My 2 cents;)
> > Petr
> >
> > On Wed, May 28, 2014 at 10:50 AM, panyasan <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> This is an interesting and important discussion!
> >>
> >> Because of the points you raised, I think the contrib infrastructure
is so
> >> critically important. I know that since qooxdoo has a corporate
sponsor,
> >> the
> >> dev team is not totally free to chose its priorities, but the value of
a
> >> library depends on its ecosystem, and the growth of the ecosystem
depends
> >> on
> >> how easy it is to contribute (see npm).
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> View this message in context:
> >>
http://qooxdoo.678.n2.nabble.com/New-contrib-website-tp7585740p7585750.html
> >> Sent from the qooxdoo mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
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