Cheers Jim I do try to be thorough Most recent progress Using various means and improvised tooling I cut / sanded filed the foam to my desired profile Driver’s side Looking down http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/10072012431.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/10072012430.jpg Looking up http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/10072012427.jpg Passenger side Looking down http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/11072012436.jpg
Looking up http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/11072012438.jpg Once this was all cleaned up (not sure the vac will ever be the same again) I started applying the polyester resin, 2 coats initially to wet out the surface and seal it in and help level off the base (this part was built up in layers with a slow mix) http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/10072012433.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/10072012434.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/10072012432.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/11072012444.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/11072012442.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/11072012443.jpg Now that’s going off nicely I’m getting ready with the next step which is to even out the lumps and bumps with a mix of resin and microbaloons, this will help the resin go further and thicken it up to prevent it all slumping to the base, then once done I was going to go ahead and mat it all in, (and I may still do) but my experience with applying mat and resin is limited at best and I don’t want to end up making a total monkeys breakfast of it at this stage doing a tricky job when all has gone pretty well so far, so I may opt to paint over the whole area inside with a mix of resin and 1/8 milled glass fibre which should (so I’m told) give a smooth finish and relatively strong too, We shall see Other jobs involved cleaning up the old holes for the rear seatbelts and wiring loom and filling them in to make a good job of it all http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/11072012440.jpg http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/2012%20quantum/11072012447.jpg To be continued…. On Jul 11, 8:38 pm, Jim Hearne <[email protected]> wrote: > Sounds like you've done a lot of homework and it's not the same stuff as > i thought it was. > > Jim > > On 09/07/2012 16:46, jin wrote: > > > > > Cheers or all the replies guys > > > Firstly the foam I have selected is structural in the 16lb density > > range, looking at the literature supplied in the kit (which is > > identical to the website) quote "Applications > > BETAFOAM polyurethane foams can be used wherever cavity sealing or > > stiffening is required, including body-side joints, sills, pillars, > > underbody cross-car structure, frame rails, longitudinal structure, > > door panels, engine cradles, lateral rails and hydroformed > > replacements." > > > I chose this foam because we use an almost identical type at work, in > > fact the only difference is the size of the container and colour, I > > cant say exactly what its used for but its intention is to absorb mine > > blast damage yet also seal a large void that will be exposed to very > > rough terrain and most importantly water, > > > in use his is 100 miles away in terms of comparison to the aerosol can > > stuff from B&Q, the can stuff just doesn t flow enough but just bulges > > out once injected into a cavity (just ask my wife after I tried to > > fill the void in our outside cupboard wall partition, she is still > > moaning now 3 years on.....) > > the Dow foam, which is mixed 1:1 via mixing nozzles, literally pours > > into the cavities yet is quite tolerant to not over filling, no where > > near as sensitive as the canned aerosol stuff, > > > im 100% confident that the sill structures are dry since the car has > > not been wet since October last year, hence why ive been so reluctant > > to go out in the car if the weather looked a bit dodgy, certainly > > looking down the cavity there is no evidence of water or even > > condensation, the garage has been heated all winter (hope my wife > > isn t reading this....) > > > Regarding the trailing arm nuts, I made some steel plates for those a > > couple of years back and bonded them into the sills back then > > >http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/DSC00716.jpg > >http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o192/jindal/DSC00717.jpg > > > all along I knew id be doing this so I thought I may as well make > > captive plates at the start, I had them zinc plated too so they should > > last indefinitely > > > ive run a few crude experiments and even on cut / sanded foam they > > show no absorption, in fact they are almost hydrophobic in they don t > > even hold water to the surface, ive weighed pieces before and after > > immersion with no weight gain, incidentally no air bubbles were > > expelled during immersion and the test pieces emerged totally dry, > > however as mentioned I will be fiberglassing the open face of the foam > > anyway for good measure, ive sanded most of it to shape (great to work > > with, sands really easily - bit messy though) and I should get the > > areas glassed over at the weekend, my main aim at the end of this is > > to > > A. block off all entries to the sill cavity with fibreglass / foam so > > water can not penetrate > > B. remove all air from the structure so there is no chance that > > moisture can cause effect, > > > I too had r4ad tales regarding minis and such like with foam in the > > sills going rotten, but the general consensus among those that fill > > sills with foam often (mainly an American / Jap thing) is technology > > has moved on allot since those days - to be fair minis used to leave > > the factory with rust, as mentioned before if this foam absorbed water > > or was non structural it would not be selected for what we do at work, > > > Ill keep you posted on the finishing touches > > > On Jul 9, 9:50 am, "[email protected]" > > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Funny story about rigid foam. > > >> We once made some targets for planes, > > >> we filled 200 litre steel drums with rigid foam, almost structural foam, > >> then painted the outside bright orange. > > >> they were fixed using steel chains into the wash target area. > > >> planes continually shot through them and they still floated even with loads > >> of bullet holes through them. this went on for about > >> 6 weeks, but then some bullets shot through the chains, and the drums > >> flaoted around the coast and washed up near grate yarmouth beach. > > >> Suffice to say they were not happy that "chemical drums had been washed up > >> onto there prize beach!" > >> so the whole project was stopped. > > >> so now they still tow old boats in there and sink them instead. > >> shame as there must be tonnes of steel there now rusting away. > > >> Steve > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Jim Hearne" <[email protected]> > >> To: <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:30 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: foam filling the sills 2+2 waterproofing > > >> Can it absorb water ?, i know when i scraped a load of it off some s/h > >> double glazed window frames it had a lot of water in it. > >> But maybe that was just from the cut surface. > > >> Jim > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:26 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: foam filling the sills 2+2 waterproofing > > >> Jim, > > >> yes it contains water, but it is used up in the foaming proccess to make > >> the > >> carbon dioxide bubbles, and so no water is left once the > >> reactions have taken place. > > >> The problem with this regarding rusting is, that the cavity needs to be > >> fully dry before the foam enters, so that no water is trapped > >> against any metal at the interface with the foam, so I would suggest trying > >> to do this in the winter or damp conditions will result in > >> accelerated rusting. so its very important to make it a warm and dry day > >> when doing this, and maybe even use a hair dryer or fan heater to > >> blow air through the cavity to ensure no moisture is present before > >> foaming. > > >> Steve > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Jim Hearne" <[email protected]> > >> To: <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:21 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: foam filling the sills 2+2 waterproofing > > >>> (in most cases > >>> water is used to make carbon dioxide to make the bubbles and the foam > >>> rise). > >> Do you mean the foam actually contains water ? > >> Isn't this the exact opposite to what Jin wants to achive. > >> I know you can spray water on the foam to make it set more. > > >> Jim > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:09 AM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [Quantum Owners] Re: foam filling the sills 2+2 waterproofing > > >> Hi everyone, > > >> Well the foaming sills issue:- > > >> just by chance I happen to be a Polymer chemist. My special skills in > >> polyurethanes, > > >> so some observations. > > >> 2 pack Polyurethanes would be a very good solution for this type of work, > >> and structural foam very ideal. > > >> Actually the low density foam in fridges and even in the B7Q cans is > >> actually the same material but with more blowing agant (in most cases > >> water is used to make crabon dioxide to make the bubbles and the foam > >> rise). > > >> Normally the mix ratio is about 100 resin (Polyol - the flexible > >> component) > >> mixed with 110 - 150 parts crosslinker (MDI - the hardener ish) > >> which gives a very strong rigid structure. the density/ strength is then > >> purely controlled by how much the material is blown by adding more water > >> more carbon dioxide is produced. > > >> The biggest problem is as you mentioned the fast reaction time of the > >> materials, which presents potential problems in that it has to flow, blow > >> and completely fill the cavity. > > >> Usually to slow these materials down if over catalysed we put in a small > >> amount of inhibitors, (basically they attack some fo the catalyst so > >> just reducing catalyst level) and an easy one to get hold of is, gring up > >> an aspirin, the acid component of this when mixed in does slow the foam > >> down. > > >> I am not sure how you are getting the liquid into the sills? > > >> On the Dow website the mention NVH, basically sound absorbing, which is the > >> same base chemicals, but at very different ratios, > >> and very flexible in comparison. > > >> Normally mix ratio about 100 resin (Polyol) mixed with 40-60 parts > >> crosslinker (MDI) > > >> At work we actually make NVH parts, and rigid parts, but the biggest > >> difficulty is getting the materials into where you want them, > >> or the other alternative is to make a mould and premake the shape, which > >> isn't so bad for NVH, but obviously not very practical to foam the sills. > >> (The extra strength only comes from the fact that the structural foam > >> actually bonds to all the faces inside the sill). > > >> ok chemistry lesson over. lol > > >> Steve > > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "jin" <[email protected]> > >> To: "Quantum Owners Group" <[email protected]> > >> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 7:46 AM > >> Subject: [Quantum Owners] Re: foam filling the sills 2+2 waterproofing > > >> oh yeah your right > > >> lets try again > > >> So as many of you may know already I have a severe worry regarding > >> the > >> sills my car filling up with water, this is not without reason > >> especially going by recent posts on here, however my concerns started > >> a long time ago just after I bought the car and discovered it had > >> steel laminated in the sills as part of the structure and read > >> stories > >> about owners drilling small holes in the sill fiberglass to fit > >> screws > >> for later fixings only to find rusty water pouring out!, not why I > >> bought the car. but I suppose it s my fault not checking first, > >> having > >> said this id still rather have the quantum with steel in its sills > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Quantum Owners Group" group. 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