hi memo, i was fiddling quite a long time around to come up with the current solution. it works so far, but the looping thing is a performance killer. if you use the kineme structure renderer ist much better, but then your limited to the content ... so i finally make a plugin for my current project and its running von a 4k res with 60+ fps.
rapid prototpying great, but at the end its easier to have a real programming language :-) > P.P.S. I realise for heavy situations a plugin would be much much much > faster. The reason I'm looking into keeping it all QC for now is for rapid > prototyping, improvising, realtime development etc. which is what excites me > about QC in the first place. mirek rusin was/is working on a objective-c plugin for qc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1TNoZnDp0A&feature=youtu.be sth. like that would be awesome. greets from vienna, stefan On Oct 4, 2010, at 2:07 PM, Mehmet Akten wrote: > thanks, conceptually this seems like a similar approach to the 2a example > Alastair sent in the previous email. a JS patch outside the iterator to > create & update and manage the data, and an iterator just pull the data from > a structure and render - though your JS is more OOP in itself, I will be > dissecting your code a bit more. > > While the performance of having the JS inside the iterator seemed to be a lot > better (avoiding a second loop - JS loop), I do think keeping the JS outside > might make management a lot simpler - especially when wanting to dynamically > add and delete objects. And also perhaps giving possibility to using a > structure render plugin (like Kineme's one) which takes a structure and does > the loop internally. > > This also brings up the question about performance of JS loop vs QC iterator. > If we could lose one of the loops (JS Loop vs QC Iterator), which one would > be more beneficial to lose? Keep the QC iterator and the JS patch inside that > which also draws (like the example I sent). Or lose the iterator and have a > JS loop which updates everything, and sends to a structure renderer. Turns > out JS loop is way way faster than QC iterator! See attached example. This > calculates the average of N random numbers. At 50K iterations JS loop gives > me 150fps, QC iterator gives 7fps! I knew iterators were slow but I didn't > know they were that slow! > > <JS loop vs iterator.qtz> > > > P.S. I remember what the dummy input is for now. If the input doesn't change > to a JS patch, it isn't reevaluated. > > P.P.S. I realise for heavy situations a plugin would be much much much > faster. The reason I'm looking into keeping it all QC for now is for rapid > prototyping, improvising, realtime development etc. which is what excites me > about QC in the first place. > > > > > > MSA Visuals Ltd. > Unit 107 Netil Studios > 1-7 Westgate St. > London E8 3RL, UK > +44 20 8123 9986 > www.msavisuals.com > > On 4 Oct 2010, at 10:56, Stefan Kainbacher, NEON GOLDEN wrote: > >> >> hi memo, thats the way i used to deal with oop. just wrote a plugin for a >> similar use-case. thats much faster if you have more objects. >> >> best, stefan >> >> <oop-example.qtz> >> >> >> On Oct 3, 2010, at 9:36 PM, Mehmet Akten wrote: >> >>> ah thanks yea, that should be d.mass , not mass. >>> also it should be pos += vel / mass, not pos = vel / mass. (i haven't slept >>> much this past week). >>> So that explains the disappearing. >>> >>> It seems the update() is called only once per run. Even though in debug >>> mode the JS patch is flashing red every frame, if I set pos to random every >>> frame, it still doesn't move. So I need to make it get called every frame >>> some how. Maybe that isn't too complicated, then there is still the Case 2 >>> :) >>> >>> >>> P.S. I've pulled this thread in from the Quartz list to the QC list. >>> >>> >>> >>> MSA Visuals Ltd. >>> Unit 107 Netil Studios >>> 1-7 Westgate St. >>> London E8 3RL, UK >>> +44 20 8123 9986 >>> www.msavisuals.com >>> >>> On 3 Oct 2010, at 20:27, George Toledo wrote: >>> >>>> Also.... still sussing out where you are going/what you need to do (sorry, >>>> it's taking a moment to sink in). >>>> >>>> ...but I just opened up the composition and ran it. Mass wasn't being >>>> declared anywhere, and if you did declare it where you have it in the >>>> javascript, it will "fart out" (excuse my highly technical term). >>>> >>>> This re-order allows there to be a mass value that doesn't cause error in >>>> the javascript compiler. Apologies if my re-order precludes something that >>>> you're trying to accomplish that's going over my head (as in, I'm still >>>> sussing out the desires in your original post, in relation to this qtz.) >>>> >>>> -GT >>>> >>>> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 3:16 PM, Mehmet Akten <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Thanks george, that makes perfect sense, I'll git it a shot. >>>> >>>> P.S. I accidentally posted this to the quartz dev list first. I reposted >>>> on the QC list too as its more related to that. Probably best not to >>>> continue this thread on this list. Apologies for the double post. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> MSA Visuals Ltd. >>>> Unit 107 Netil Studios >>>> 1-7 Westgate St. >>>> London E8 3RL, UK >>>> +44 20 8123 9986 >>>> www.msavisuals.com >>>> >>>> On 3 Oct 2010, at 20:11, George Toledo wrote: >>>> >>>>> Quick note: still reading through your case scenarios; the feedback patch >>>>> will work inside of the iterator if you don't have consumer patches. The >>>>> results can then be gathered in a queue and published out, where the >>>>> values can then be iterated through again if necessary. Not saying this >>>>> is necessarily always efficient, but it's possible. >>>>> >>>>> -GT >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Mehmet Akten <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> Hi all, a much discussed topic I'm sure... >>>>> >>>>> I know QC is not designed as a 'proper' OOP programming language etc. so >>>>> a question regarding object oriented programming re quartz composer may >>>>> be irrelevant, but nevertheless I'm trying to get my head around how best >>>>> to tackle some basic data/behaviour management approaches in QC. >>>>> >>>>> Take this scenario (this isn't for anything so I don't have specific >>>>> goal, just a test case). >>>>> >>>>> Case 1: >>>>> I have N initial cubes, flying around with some basic behaviour. E.g. In >>>>> this particular case, I want them to each have a target point, they fly >>>>> to their target point based on various parameters (mass etc). When they >>>>> reach their target, they pick a new target and fly there. I'm sure I did >>>>> this kinda stuff in the past using global JS vars, but I couldn't get it >>>>> to work this time. I've attached my comp, if I have one iteration, I see >>>>> my cube, but it doesn't move. If I have more than 1 iteration, they all >>>>> appear, but then disappear after a short while. >>>>> >>>>> What I'm doing may be very hacky (JS patch in an iterator with a global >>>>> array of structures). THe feedback patch seems to try and address this >>>>> issue, but obviously doesn't work in an iterator. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Then there's more. Imagine a few more basic scenarios. >>>>> >>>>> Case 2: >>>>> 1. when I click in an empty space, a new object is created and added to >>>>> the flock >>>>> 2. when i click on an existing object, it is deleted >>>>> 3. pressing 'e' toggles the app between 'edit' mode and 'play' mode. in >>>>> 'edit mode they all stop moving and when you click on an existing object >>>>> you get some very basic options: >>>>> a. by clicking elsewhere you can set the new target for that object >>>>> b. pressing d deletes the object >>>>> c. numbers 1-9 defines how that particular object should be drawn >>>>> (texture, cube, sphere etc.) >>>>> d. etc. >>>>> >>>>> I can imagine how to do #3 (keep track of a bool in the root.data >>>>> object). and #3c (multiplexer). #1, #2, #3a and #3b should be straight >>>>> forward too, but its the data management that I can't get my head around. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I know if it gets too complicated it just makes sense to write a plugin, >>>>> but I just want to see exactly how far can can QC be taken in this way >>>>> regarding logic and behaviours. The scenario I mention above doesn't seem >>>>> too complicated, in fact is quite basic and I feel you should be able to >>>>> do it within a noodley environment. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> P.S. connecting the JS output to enable of a billboard worked by the way, >>>>> thanks for the tip alessandro >>>>> >>>>> Cheers, >>>>> >>>>> Memo. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> MSA Visuals Ltd. >>>>> Unit 107 Netil Studios >>>>> 1-7 Westgate St. >>>>> London E8 3RL, UK >>>>> +44 20 8123 9986 >>>>> www.msavisuals.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>>> Quartz-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/quartz-dev/gtoledo3%40gmail.com >>>>> >>>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> George Toledo >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> www.georgetoledo.com >>>>> >>>>> The information contained in this E-mail and any attachments may be >>>>> confidential. >>>>> If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify us immediately >>>>> by telephone or return E-mail. >>>>> You should not use or disclose the contents of this E-mail or any of the >>>>> attachments for any purpose or to any persons. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Quartz-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/quartz-dev/gtoledo3%40gmail.com >>>> >>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> George Toledo >>>> [email protected] >>>> www.georgetoledo.com >>>> >>>> The information contained in this E-mail and any attachments may be >>>> confidential. >>>> If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify us immediately by >>>> telephone or return E-mail. >>>> You should not use or disclose the contents of this E-mail or any of the >>>> attachments for any purpose or to any persons. >>>> >>>> <OOP test1_b.qtz> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>> Quartzcomposer-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/quartzcomposer-dev/stefan%40neongolden.net >>> >>> This email sent to [email protected] >> >> -- >> NEW phone number: 0676 60 33 989 >> >> -- >> NEON GOLDEN >> VISUAL EXPERIMENT >> >> lab.neongolden.net >> >> -- >> www.respectyourvj.net >> >> >> >> >> > -- NEW phone number: 0676 60 33 989 -- NEON GOLDEN VISUAL EXPERIMENT lab.neongolden.net -- www.respectyourvj.net
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