Well said On Sat, 10 Mar 2018, 12:12 am Billy Rojas, <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dr. Navayan- > > I visited your blog; it provides a useful forum for people with > > serious interest in human rights issues in India. That certainly is a > > valuable endeavor but not something I know enough about to > > offer informed commentary. I'm not totally in the dark about India > > but my knowledge is spotty. Maybe some year I will have the > > opportunity to visit India and become far better informed. > > > > Yes, I agree that *pursuit of objectivity* is what we need to focus on. > > Nobody can possibly be objective about everything, and, as well, > > it is important to be honest about our limitations. Still, as a college > > teacher even if I am retired, one lesson you learn is that you > > are responsible for presenting verified facts to your students > > as much as possible, and tell them the basis of evidence > > that supports knowing something as a "fact." This is not > > all that difficult --at least if someone does not take > > known facts and then make claims about things > > that remain uncertain. > > > I don't expect a cardiologist to know 100% of everything > > that can be known about the heart -but do expect him > > to work with established facts if he needs to open my chest > > and do bypass surgery. Teaching history or social science > > is not nearly as dramatic but a similar principle applies. > > I am obliged to tell the truth about the Mughals or the > > Roman Empire but when truths are not known it is > > just as vital to admit that things are not certain and > > evidence still is missing, > > > In other words, I think we are on the same page. > > > Best wishes > > Billy R. > > > ------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Centroids <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, March 9, 2018 6:28 AM > *To:* Dr.B. Karthik Navayan > *Cc:* Billy Rojas; [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [RC] Re: Objectivity [ RC ] Is Science a Social Construct? > > Hi Billy, > > Well said. I think we are aligned around “the pursuit of objectivity” as a > goal; my main quibble is with those who claim to have “achieved > objectivity.” > > E > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Mar 8, 2018, at 19:29, Dr.B. Karthik Navayan <[email protected]> wrote: > > Dear Billy, > Here you go https://karthiknavayan.wordpress.com/about/ > > On Fri, 9 Mar 2018, 8:52 am Billy Rojas, <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Dr. Navayan: >> >> I am gratified that you regard my comments about objectivity and >> subjectivity >> >> useful. Of course, feel free to make use of the material on your blog. >> >> >> May I ask the name of your blog? I'm curious and would like to visit >> your site. >> >> >> sincerely >> >> Billy Rojas >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------- >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Dr.B. Karthik Navayan <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 8, 2018 10:21 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Cc:* Centroids; Billy Rojas >> *Subject:* Re: [RC] Re: Objectivity [ RC ] Is Science a Social Construct? >> >> Billy Rojas, >> I liked this explanation of subjectivity. Can I post it to my blog? With >> your name. >> >> On Thu, 8 Mar 2018, 11:43 pm Billy Rojas, < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> *Ernie:* >>> >>> There isn't just one correct way to define "objectivity." However, there >>> is >>> >>> no point in getting tangled up in knots over the issue. Essentially my >>> viewpoint >>> >>> is that of the philosophical Pragmatists like James and Peirce. >>> >>> >>> Objectivity is what makes medical science possible, that allows for a >>> procedure >>> >>> like open heart surgery to be successful, that permits experts to >>> predict the weather >>> >>> or (albeit with only a few seconds warning with current technology) >>> earthquakes >>> >>> in places with lots of monitoring, that allows for architects to design >>> great bridges >>> >>> that span hundreds of feet of water and not fall down, and so forth for >>> a wide >>> >>> variety of areas of interest from economics to hydraulics to psychology >>> >>> to molecular engineering. >>> >>> >>> We can be approximately as successful as scientists about such matters >>> >>> to the extent that we use scientific method or something similar. So far >>> >>> there still are mistakes in many areas but what is remarkable is how >>> >>> far we have progressed since, say, 1750. >>> >>> >>> Objectivity should also mean willingness to value subjectivity in all >>> cases >>> >>> where personal feelings, intuitions, inclinations, values, etc are in >>> play >>> >>> which do not conflict with legitimate use of the scientific method. >>> >>> >>> That is, to refer to the crux of things, not for one minute do I >>> disregard the >>> >>> worth and reality of the spiritual realm; and this is subjective in >>> many senses. >>> >>> However, not for one minute do I disregard the approach of the sciences >>> >>> to religion, either. Religion is both a phenomenon amenable to >>> scientific >>> >>> scrutiny and an epiphenomenon which is its own domain. As such this >>> >>> manifestly does not mean that religion is the focus of an ever shrinking >>> >>> set of phenomena, everything else having given up its secrets to >>> >>> microscopes and telescopes. Rather, the real task is to try and >>> >>> understand the relationships of everything that goes by the term >>> >>> "religious" and to be open to something that might be characterized >>> >>> as communication from a life-affirming unseen source. >>> >>> >>> To me this also says that we are far better off using the standard >>> vocabulary >>> >>> of "objective" and "subjective." I may well adopt a neologism now and >>> >>> then but whatever a new word may turn out to be, it should not >>> >>> muddy the waters. >>> >>> >>> >>> This said, there is far better language available to talk about >>> >>> religion -aka spirituality- than with antiseptic terms and >>> abstractions. >>> >>> Give me a classic poem by Dryden any day, or heartfelt searching by >>> >>> Albert Schweitzer or, of course, Proverbs in the Bible, or Ecclesiastes, >>> >>> or the Gospels, or for that matter, the Dhammapada. >>> >>> >>> >>> Billy >>> >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Centroids <[email protected]> >>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 8, 2018 9:00 AM >>> *To:* [email protected] >>> *Cc:* Billy Rojas >>> *Subject:* Objectivity Re: [RC] Fwd: [FoRK] Science Wars: Is Science a >>> Social Construct?, Women's Studies as Virus >>> >>> I sympathize. I think part of the problem though might be the word >>> “objectivity.” How do you define it? >>> >>> For myself, I’ve been toying with the weaker phrase “trans-subjective” >>> to affirm that there is more to reality that mere subjectivity, without >>> having to defend a claim to objectivity. >>> >>> E >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Mar 7, 2018, at 08:12, Billy Rojas <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> The weakness of current critiques of objectivity, said to be impossible >>> anyway, >>> >>> is that where this gets us is to that place where, in the 1920s, >>> >>> Weimar Germany was getting, a breakdown in credibiliity >>> >>> in just about all "family values." This opens the door wide >>> >>> to nihilisim, to anything goes libertarianism, and, hence >>> >>> to virulent strains of populism. >>> >>> >>> Mind you, I am pro-populist, but this refers to the 1890s version >>> >>> of populism, not to the authoritarian forms that have arisen since. >>> >>> It is the authoritarian forms that all-too-easily slide over into >>> >>> full fledged hard Right and hard Left authoritarianisms. >>> >>> >>> Finally, I define RC in large part as research centered. >>> >>> This refers to the scientific method, or as much of that method >>> >>> as we can make use of in ordinary prose. For me this means >>> >>> that objectivity, as much objectivity as possible, >>> >>> is the necessary foundation of Radical Centrism. >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community < >>> [email protected]> >>> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism >>> Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org >>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> -- -- Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community <[email protected]> Google Group: http://groups.google.com/group/RadicalCentrism Radical Centrism website and blog: http://RadicalCentrism.org --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Centroids: The Center of the Radical Centrist Community" group. 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