> --- CmdrPier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Personal criticism? I wouldn't call it that. I just disagree with your
> > proposal. You've addressed items that I didn't question, e.g., the idea
> > of manifest destiny and being a steward of the land. So I won't address
> > them in the response.
> >
> > Back to my point, which you didn't address and was implied in the
> > question on a biblical backup for income redistribution via government
> > Personal criticism? I wouldn't call it that. I just disagree with your
> > proposal. You've addressed items that I didn't question, e.g., the idea
> > of manifest destiny and being a steward of the land. So I won't address
> > them in the response.
> >
> > Back to my point, which you didn't address and was implied in the
> > question on a biblical backup for income redistribution via government
> > force. As Christians, our world view
should be filtered through the
> > Word of God.
>
> See... We were talking about conscious objection and the end result
> is that the Assembly of God Church that owns Royal Rangers will not
> support a CO claim for a member at induction to the military.. They
> will not condem the claim, it's just that they will not stand up for
> a USA objector on grounds of biblical evidence for his convictions.
>
> So *If your question is about Christians.. then the answer must be
> that many faiths feel differently about "world views" and the
> word...
>
> Another aspect of this and the previous topic is that "Christians"
> do not need to unified in "geo-politics" but are part of God's
> family thru grace<G> *This "grace" implies "Love" and that is a
> thing that can transend many differences of opinion..
Huh?
> > Again, where is the biblical support for income redistribution via
> > government force? What do we do with Paul's advice that if a man won't
> > work, then neither shall he eat? While your idea sounds nice in theory,
> > it won't work. Cicero said that when the people in a democracy realize
> > they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury, democracy
> > is doomed. We're headed in that direction.
>
> So why is democrocy doomed? Are you saying the "People" have
> no right to self govern? Why must things that require a change of
> attitude or culture shift become a threat to your political beliefs?
So what do you do with Paul's statement? The "doom" comes from bankrupting the treasury with massive debt. Simple logic in use here - you cannot keep running negative numbers forever. It will collapse eventually.
>
> See... We were talking about conscious objection and the end result
> is that the Assembly of God Church that owns Royal Rangers will not
> support a CO claim for a member at induction to the military.. They
> will not condem the claim, it's just that they will not stand up for
> a USA objector on grounds of biblical evidence for his convictions.
>
> So *If your question is about Christians.. then the answer must be
> that many faiths feel differently about "world views" and the
> word...
>
> Another aspect of this and the previous topic is that "Christians"
> do not need to unified in "geo-politics" but are part of God's
> family thru grace<G> *This "grace" implies "Love" and that is a
> thing that can transend many differences of opinion..
Huh?
> > Again, where is the biblical support for income redistribution via
> > government force? What do we do with Paul's advice that if a man won't
> > work, then neither shall he eat? While your idea sounds nice in theory,
> > it won't work. Cicero said that when the people in a democracy realize
> > they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury, democracy
> > is doomed. We're headed in that direction.
>
> So why is democrocy doomed? Are you saying the "People" have
> no right to self govern? Why must things that require a change of
> attitude or culture shift become a threat to your political beliefs?
So what do you do with Paul's statement? The "doom" comes from bankrupting the treasury with massive debt. Simple logic in use here - you cannot keep running negative numbers forever. It will collapse eventually.
> > What is needed is to get the government off the backs of the people and
> > let them produce, i.e., lower taxes, less regulation, etc. Return the
> > federal government to its rightful place as stated in the constitution.
> > By the way, there is no provision in
the constitution for benevolence.
> > There were several bills presented during our
the first 100 years, and
> > they were shot down for that very reason. That means no student aid,
> > they were shot down for that very reason. That means no student aid,
> > no welfare (federal), no social
security, among others. If the states
> > want to have those programs, so be
it.
>
> You really think Big Business has the moral agenda to offer fair
> wages for you to afford an American lifestyle? Ha! ...as soon
> as they can, they will cut your job and ship it away... Big money
> is the domain of pirates and that is what fuels the special intrest
> lobby that preaches "hold on, Reagan says that the trickle down will work"
>
> The nature of pirates is to plunder and pilage.
>
> You really think Big Business has the moral agenda to offer fair
> wages for you to afford an American lifestyle? Ha! ...as soon
> as they can, they will cut your job and ship it away... Big money
> is the domain of pirates and that is what fuels the special intrest
> lobby that preaches "hold on, Reagan says that the trickle down will work"
>
> The nature of pirates is to plunder and pilage.
Who mentioned Big Business? Over 2/3rds of
the jobs are provided by small businesses. Now, you haven't addressed the
constitutional issue - no benevolence provided, yet the document was written by
Christian men who openly practiced faith.
I think you tossed this warm and fuzzy idea out
to get some action going. You rascal you! I'll be on the edge of my
seat waiting for your response to Michael Pakay.
For those of you who waded all the way
down here, I'll toss a ethical question out - What do you do with a person who
has a proclivity to stretch the truth, if not outright prevarication?
Doesn't happen frequently, but enough to make you mad, and at times when you
need them? What if they are a Ranger leader?
Kelvin
> -=A#1=-
>
> >
> > By the way, I am not a tax protester. I believe in giving Caesar his
> > due,
> > but not a penny more.
> >
> > Kelvin
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ace Numer- Uno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "CmdrPier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 6:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: [RR] Guaranteed annual income
> >
> >
> > >
> > > --- CmdrPier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > Me thinks you've lived on the left coast too long - breathing too
> > much
> > > > sea
> > > > air.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Boy.. this personal criticizum that a good Idea can generate is a
> > > fantastic
> > > boost to the ego<G> I was told my salvation was in question today for
> > > criticizeing GW Bush<G>
> > >
> > > "Left coast" ....like as if life exsists east of Mt.Hood<G>
> > > man it ain't nothing but desert.....
> > >
> > > Out here in Orygun- yah don't require air conditioning or
> > > snake bite kits or bug screens on the windows.. *We got all three
> > > *'jus don't need them...
> > >
> > > Like all them sweaty Preacher's yell'n about domination and
> > > manipulation. We DON"T Need them eather- They tell me the country is
> > > going to hell in a hand basket and Jesus is comming so soon we don't
> > > need to clean up our garbage.. just vote Republican and hang on.
> > >
> > > Rapture out!
> > >
> > > *Given that I heard that line since birth and now I'm 50 and fat..
> > >
> > > Try this:
> > > The Pioneers thought they had a "Divine mandate to prosper and Lord
> > > over God's green earth"
> > >
> > > How is that related to being a good steward?
> > >
> > > This land was not so much handed to me by my Father, but rather put in
> > > my care to preserve it for my children. I will answer to them for my
> > > decisions today.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > I ran the numbers - a family of 4 with an income of $14,000 would
> > pay no
> > > > federal income tax; in fact, they would get a refund of $4,505 (EITC
> > and
> > > > child tax credit). That is a negative tax rate of 32.2%. That
> > would be
> > > > decreased by state and local taxes, which weren't discussed in the
> > > > article.
> > >
> > >
> > > Forget the artical...
> > >
> > > *My plan is to have zero tax up to $50,000
> > >
> > > *All federal programs requireing funding would end and a cash payment
> > > to all citizens by grant would replace the current coruption<G>
> > >
> > > No welfare
> > > No food stanps
> > > No Social Security
> > > No foriegn wars!
> > >
> > > *We keep the Coast Guard and Border Patrol<G>
> > >
> > > and as a pet peeve..
> > >
> > > *-No uniform building code for private single
> > > story homes on private land... Hippie shacks are a-ok!
> > >
> > > At 18 or at graduation of High School a monthly stipend of $750
> > > would be granted.
> > >
> > > If you work- you keep everything and the $750 a mo. up to $50,000
> > >
> > > *If you commit a crime.. and are convicted your $750 goes away
> > > and you are sent to former army bases in North Dakota to stuff
> > > envelopes for Uncle Sam.
> > >
> > > *Where does all this money come from?
> > >
> > > Check it out..
> > >
> > > The US is the richest nation
> > > Time to spread the wealth.. to the people
> > >
> > > > By the way, I would be interested in a biblical reference where God
> > > > directs
> > > > the government to take from one group and give to another.
> > >
> > > Tax protester eh...?
> > >
> > > The USA is a Government for all the people.
> > >
> > > All your life you will be associated with people of differing
> > > faiths and beliefs. In America we beleve in religious freedom,
> > > and so we *respect others whose religion may differ from ours,
> > although
> > > for reason of conscience, we do not agree with them.
> > >
> > > Let's let
> > > the bean counters sort out the details and leave rule by the Bible
> > > for the new Christian right wing homeland of North Dakota<G>
> > >
> > > In Fargo you can preach all day.. all night and hold endless
> > offerings.
> > >
> > > -=A=-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From a
> > > > reading
> > > > of the bible I have, in the Old Testament the harvesters were to
> > leave
> > > > crops
> > > > in the field for the widowed and poor (see Ruth) while in the New
> > > > Testament
> > > > the giving was to the church, which then met the needs of the poor.
> > > > This
> > > > was the case for centuries until the leftist atheists thought it was
> > > > indignant that a poor man should have to sit through a sermon to get
> > > > food.
> > > > That was the impetus for transferring aid to the poor to the
> > government.
> > > >
> > > > Kelvin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ace Numer- Uno" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:42 PM
> > > > Subject: [RR] Guaranteed annual income
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Note: forwarded message attached.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey! pro- free market pro-Republican special intrest supporters..!
> > > > >
> > > > > Check out this liberal social program to help Americans get on
> > > > > their feet. You promote the free loss of jobs to the working
> > class
> > > > > but have a hollow social conscience.
> > > > >
> > > > > The guarenteed annual income solves this...
> > > > >
> > > > > -=A#1=-
> > > > >
> > > > > =====
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> =====
> *High MORALE is the Index of effective Leadership.
> --------------********+********--------------------
> Morale raises belief of the Leader in the follower,
> of the follower in the Leader, of each in themself,
> and both in the .....cause!
>
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