I do not know for a fact if the Hilsen and the Hilborne share the same tubing, but based on the catalog copy, the Hilsen leaning road and the Hilborne leaning fire road gravel grind, I assume the Sam has a beefier fork for sure, and probably other more substantial frame tubing as well. If, as I suspect is true of many, most of the OP's miles are on pavement and some hard pack, and not multi-day rides laden with supplies on rutted dirt and trails, a Hilsen would be sweet and plenty versatile enough.
I think it comes down to, you either believe and/or experience tubing diameters and thicknesses, or, perhaps, the weight of a given frameset, has a noticeable effect on ride quality, or you don't. At some point in the spectrum, of course, it does. Where in that spectrum a particular rider is able to discern the difference is the issue (as well as how much it matters; to me, these days, less and less.) Sure build will affect things. My Treklantis weighs in the neighborhood of 36 pounds with racks, bags, fenders, lights, tools, water bottle. But even without all that, it has a different ride quality than my 1980s sport touring Kuwahara did. Almost identical geos (the Trekendell being almost identical to an Atlantis), but different tubesets. The Trek (a 1990s Mulltitrack 750, aka Trek 520 in another life, now sporting 26" wheels and a Riv fork) is lugged OS and the Kuwahara Ishiwata 022. But in terms of how a build affects the ride, I will say that the Rat Trap Pass on the Atlantrek make it pretty much just as fun to ride burdened as the Kuwahara. I like the variety, which is the thing that allows me to, well, enjoy the variety!;^) But, getting a bike you like, when we have that luxury, can be a big factor, obviously. Hence RBW. Jeez, I hope I got affect and effect right. My brain is not what it once was. <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-wDcc-mRKEhU/Wpgh76wcCQI/AAAAAAAALU8/qzDZwSmR5N8oa9cv5kaXNDv4bB6eH-8KwCLcBGAs/s1600/treklantis%2Bfin.JPG> On Thursday, March 1, 2018 at 9:48:38 AM UTC-5, Dave Small wrote: > > Hi Bill, > > What you're saying, in essence, is that I'm underestimating the effect of > the "build objective" on the ride. I'm not curious enough to test your > hypothesis in this case, but you may well be right. If so, then that could > explain the divergence of opinion I saw in the previous thread I > referenced. > > Dave > > > On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 3:36:20 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote: >> >> Part of it for me probably hinges on the fact that I'm a mechanic. As a >> mechanic, the frame and the parts are the paints and the canvas, and....the >> frame. As the mechanic, I'm the painter. The build is the thing, to me. >> For exactly the same reason you said: "I wouldn't recommend getting a Sam >> thinking it's a Hilsen", I would say: "I wouldn't recommend putting racks >> and heavy tires on one bike thinking it's a sporty build". You built your >> Sam not to be sporty, so it's not. You built your Hilsen to be sporty, so >> it is. If you flipped your intentions, I bet you would succeed. >> >> Bill Lindsay >> El Cerrito, CA >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 12:25:39 PM UTC-8, Dave Small wrote: >>> >>> Hi Bill, >>> >>> My comment reflected only my opinion that the models ride a little >>> differently. I own both now, so like you I can directly compare them. >>> There's not a *lot* of difference between them, but in general I find >>> the Hilsen to be a little sportier and a little more fun. I have them set >>> up a little differently, with racks and wider-tougher tires on the Sam, so >>> that could contribute to the difference I feel but I don't think it >>> explains all of it. I prefer the Hilsen for general fun-rides and take the >>> Sam for short tours, although both models could handle both tasks albeit >>> maybe just a little better or worse than the other, depending on the task. >>> After my first ride on the Hilsen I told my wife that if I were ever >>> forced to trim to N=1, the Hilsen would be a strong contender to be that >>> one. I've never felt that way about the Sam, but I guess I might if I >>> didn't have the Hilsen. >>> >>> I remember a thread a few months back on the subject of Sam versus >>> Homer, with many posters reflecting your opinion and many others reflecting >>> mine. It was interesting to watch that discussion develop since I had a >>> definite opinion and so many of the initial responders disagreed with it. >>> I think it's safe to say that if there's a difference, it's not a big one. >>> >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 1:03:53 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote: >>>> >>>> Dave Small stated that he does not consider the Hillborne and the >>>> Hilsen functionally equivalent. >>>> >>>> I respect that opinion but I respectfully disagree with it, as it >>>> applies to myself. I owned them both, both at the same time. I >>>> considered >>>> them functionally equivalent, so I sold the "expensive" one and kept the >>>> "inexpensive" one. The inexpensive one (Hillborne) happened to have more >>>> natural versatility because it has cantilever brakes, and greater >>>> resulting >>>> clearances. It is definitely possible that I don't have the sensitivity >>>> to >>>> detect the differences that others may detect. The geometry is virtually >>>> identical so that contribution to "ride" should be identical. I >>>> definitely >>>> did not possess the sensitivity to detect "planing" differences between my >>>> Hilsen and my Hillborne. I rode the Hilsen a lot more than I rode the >>>> Hillborne, because, of course, it was the 'nicer' bike. I detected no >>>> difference in the ride quality between the two. Others more sensitive >>>> than >>>> me or who ride a lot more than me might detect something. The Hilsen is >>>> certainly no worse than the Hillborne. >>>> >>>> Bill Lindsay >>>> El Cerrito, CA >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, February 27, 2018 at 9:17:32 AM UTC-8, Dave Small wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I don't consider these substitutable. I mean, yeah, you can >>>>> substitute a Sam for a Homer, but they ride differently. If I wanted a >>>>> Hilsen, I'd get a Hilsen. I wouldn't recommend getting a Sam thinking >>>>> it's >>>>> a Hilsen. >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, February 26, 2018 at 3:17:33 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> If I was in the market for a used 59cm Hilsen, I would give serious >>>>>> consideration to a NEW 55cm canti-Hillborne. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks!! >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
