Ah, so this is how Grant gets Rivendells to ride so nice. Makes sense when you put it like this.
On Friday, July 24, 2020 at 6:09:38 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: > > It's in Book II of Aristotle's Physics where he analyzes nature. Natural > reality, as opposed to say metaphysical reality (spirits, or angels, say, > which in all traditional cultures, Aztec to Hindu to Zulu, are not > individual things but concrete universal essences whose reality is a state > of direct knowledge; Vedanta is particularly clear on this; or as someone > said very well, "Spirit is knowlege in act; Wm Blake: "What is the Holy > Spirit but an Intellectual Fountain?") or, on the other side of the > "realness of reality," mathematical things, triangle, three which are > realities (of a sort; three is something distinct and real, it is not > nothing) abstracted from their material substratums by the mind --- after > that very excessively long running jump: in contradistinction to these, > natural reality is the world of change, or to use the technical term, > "coming to be." He analyzes becoming in nature by analogy with becoming in > art (art = the fully acquired "standardized" mental know-how and > concomitant psychological and physiological habits or by which a maker can > *routinely* and not by chance imagine what he wants to make and put that > image into the matter in question, be it cake or a sonnet. Aristotle and > Aquinas do not distinguish between the "fine" and the "applied" arts > insofar as they are arts. > > He analyzes coming to be in the arts using the instrument of analyzing how > we talk about this, because common speech contains our most fundamental and > basic insights, the most prior knowledge that can't be refuted by any > posterior knowledge simply because posterior knowledge is based on the > prior knowlege; those concepts most certain though very vague and inchoate > -- "thing" or a being, for example; the methodological instrument is to > clarify what we mean when we say, for example, "This comes to be from that" > or "he made that out of this." From such analysis of the arts, it becomes > apparent that you have 4 things that are reasons you give for the question, > "Why does this thing have this or that property?" Why does the chair have 4 > legs? First, because it's for sitting, and 4 legs and a seat and a back > allow you to sit; the end or goal -- again, last to be achieved but first > absolutely because you have to have an idea of what you are doing before > you do it. Second the form, in this case the shapes and arrangements: > because the device in question, chair, is something that has 4 legs to keep > it off the ground and a seat for your ass and a back for your back; that's > what a chair is. Third the matter; wood or steel or low density > polyethylene. The chair has 4 legs because LDP can't support your bulk with > just 1 leg or by a compressed air column or by parapsychological mind rays. > Finally the agent or series of agents: that or those who put the shapes and > arrangements in to the material, from designer and product engineer to the > machine and the poor schmuck who pulls the handles. In the crafts, of > course, this is one person responsible for the intellectual and the manual > process as a whole. > > Apply this to things that are not made by art or those that don't come > about by chance: natural things. We also say, "the rose turned red from > green bud," or the boy grew up; the color change took place in the rose, > the change in height took place in the boy. But in natural things you have > the coming to be of wholly and essentially new things, not just > rearrangements of existing things; when I saw my daughter's birth, it was > PD clear that she wasn't just a rearrangement of something that had already > existed from all time; she was brand new! She is something in her own > right, not merely a new arrangement of something else; she has her own > identity. So, this comes from that, which implies a substratum -- because > she really did come to be; she didn't exist before, just sort of out of > sight; but this substratum ca't be one that is "anything" in itself, > otherwise Catie would be merely an arrangement of that something. This is > pure potentiality, but this doesn't mean just "nothing," it means an > obscure original whose entire reality is a weird ontological relationship > to a "kind" or "form," "eidos" in classical Greek -- my dissertation, in > fact. It is eidos that makes the thing be and makes it be this rather than > that. A cat is something, it's a thing, it's not just a randomness; we mean > something by "cat," and no one can tell us otherwise; I know what a cat is, > at least generally, and that's the point; it's a real kind of thing. So > when a girl or a cat comes into the world, there is an ungraspable -- > except by analogy with the material of the arts, and by reference to an > eidos -- that makes this instance of the eidos possible here and now, for > the instance comes and goes but the eidos remains -- "cat" exists even when > all my cats die. Eidos gives being and it gives kind or meaning; being and > meaning are givens, they can't be pulled out of a prior existential or > epistemological hat; what hat would that be? Nothing comes from nothing, > and a meaning is, well it can't be reduced to something prior to meaning. > > Werner Heisenberg was so put to it to understand quantum reality that he > finally got back to this idea of "a sort of being that is not completely > being nor completely non-being, that is, Aristotle's idea of matter as > potentiality." > > Aristotle's ethics and psychology is based on this physical foundation; > and Aquinas's theology is based on all the above, which is why you don't > just jump in and read the *Summa Theologica, *even if this theological > compendium in all in all its 4-tome bulk is a beginners' textbook; your > beginners need prior beginnings. > > Typed quickly off top of head, but perhaps makes sense. Problem is that > Aristotle's texts are not real books, but class notes by students or > lecture notes; most translations are done by linguists who have no clue > about the subject matter, so that at least the standard McKeon Basic Works > of 50 years ago was literally unintelligible in places -- translation > requires more than knowing classical Greek; relied on very good tutors. > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 3:17 PM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch < > [email protected] <javascript:>> wrote: > >> Pat >> >> Wow, the St Tom quote is great. I think I see how it applies to RBW, but >> am mixed up on the 4 causes. Any clarification??? >> >> John Hawrylak >> Woodstown NJ >> >> On Thursday, July 23, 2020 at 2:53:59 PM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: >>> >>> Which by another obscure train of ideas leads me to another dictum, that >>> of St. Thomas Aquinas: "The end of the artist [= maker] is the good of the >>> artifact [= product]," where "end" is a technical term and refers to that >>> of the 4 causes which is last in generation but first absolutely in the >>> generation of things. >>> >>> Just thought you should know. >>> >>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2020 at 12:49 PM Patrick Moore <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Skimming the posts on this thread, I was reminded of an early Grantian >>>> dictum that appealed to me a great deal (I ended up quoting it in a MBA >>>> program marketing paper): "We aren't market driven, we're product driven" >>>> -- this after having read ad nauseam about "perception of value" and that >>>> sort of shit. While I find many of Grant's products excessively whimsical, >>>> or at least idiosyncratic in a direction that is not my road, I do favor >>>> him for, basically, managing by or for the product, which means not >>>> compromising about a design you think best, even if your idea of best is a >>>> very minority idea. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Patrick Moore >>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Patrick Moore >>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/12e481b1-7b65-4770-8d21-0693c1e38a7bo%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/12e481b1-7b65-4770-8d21-0693c1e38a7bo%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Patrick Moore > Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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