+1, and no desire to be controversial, but every desire to share what I have experienced. Disc brakes just work, and work well, even -- this is from my experience, which is limited, of course -- mechanical discs; and even **cheap** mechanical discs, like the -- god knows, I don't: what were the OEMs on the Monocog? But take the ancient, perennial BB7, either road or mtb model. As long as you know to clamp the cable about 1/3 of the way along the actuator arm's travel, Bob's your uncle.
On the Monocog, I swapped out the flat-bar OEM cheapo discs for Road BB7s, and pull them with high MA (thus, bad for the purpose, but I had them handy) Shimano 600 AX aero levers thought generic, by-the-foot housing. They work very well: no rubbing until you get mud all over the pads and rotors, and even that for not very long; stop well -- at last as well as any centerpull I've ever used, and certainly better than the expensive Paul cantis on my Matthews 2:1 (more on this in another post*) -- and they're easy to set up (once you know that trick). No, they're not as powerful as V brakes or as easily modulated as good single pivots, but they are fully mid-pack for power, modulation, and ease of setup. Were I to gin up the gumption to replace the AX levers for some good, low MA non-aero levers, and replace the $0.87 per foot housing with Jagwire or something, they'd work even better. But they work so well as-is that I can't be bothered. Now, I've never used full hydraulics, but I do have TRP Hy Rds on the Matthews 1:1. Yes, they are more powerful and easier to set up. They don't modulate much better. But are they twice as good for twice the price? Nope. I got my Hy Rds used for a good price, but I'd be hard put to decide whether the premium in full retail would justify the real world performance compared to BB7s. And: discs, mechanical and hybrid, are just so easy to set up!! * Any suggestions for improving "bite" for the Paul cantis on the Matthews 2:1? Touring rear, Neo Retros front. Salmon Kool Stop pads. Shimano pre-STI Dura Ace 74?? levers. The pads just don't grab the rims strongly, and they're long since broken in. The single pivot (Superbe Pro? RGC?) front on the 1999 gofast grabs harder than either f or r Paul. Ideas? On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 12:45 PM Mackenzy Albright < [email protected]> wrote: > *personal opinion* if you're not racing, have a larger tire, and want low > effort braking (and no weight concerns) disc's are hard to beat, especially > in wet weather. I have read aaaaallll of Jan and Grants beating the dead > pony for rim brakes, but my arthritic fingers enjoy the light action and > consistency of discs. Adding disc tabs onto existing frames isn't terribly > difficult for a good builder. I've heard its actually easier than setting > up post mounts. > > On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 12:04:59 PM UTC-7 [email protected] wrote: > >> I had a bike welder braze on posts for v-brakes only on the front of my >> Bleriot. MUCH better stopping! >> >> On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 10:50:42 AM UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote: >> >>> Second this. Those long reach calipers are a bad design concept. You can >>> try to make them less bad, but they’ll never have the power of your V >>> brakes. >>> >>> I won’t buy a frame that takes these brakes anymore (with the possible >>> exception of a fixed gear frame) >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> On Monday, December 20, 2021, Jeremy Till <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Unfortunately the VO Grand Cru brakes are 47-57mm reach and the >>>> sidepull Sams were designed for 55-76mm reach brakes. The nomenclature gets >>>> confusing because for a while the former was the spec for "long reach" >>>> caliper brakes, until the latter came along. Following Paul Components, who >>>> used to make versions of the Racer brake for both reach specifications, I >>>> usually refer to 47-57mm brakes as "medium" or "mid reach" and 55-76mm as >>>> "long reach" now, but I'm sure that's not universal across the industry. >>>> >>>> As others have noted, in 55-76mm reach the options are very limited, >>>> with the longer-reach Paul Racer (distinguished from the mid-reach Racer M) >>>> being the usual upgrade if Tektros aren't cutting it. Unfortunately, the >>>> longer-reach Racers are now out of production so you're looking for used or >>>> NOS ones. I think Dia-Compe also makes some centerpull options but I'm >>>> skeptical if they would be an upgrade over Tektros. >>>> >>>> Personally, as much as I respect Grant, my feeling is that 47-57mm is >>>> pretty much the reach limit for center-mount caliper brakes; anything >>>> longer than that and you're really battling flex in the long arms, and >>>> would be better off going to cantilevers or brazed-on long reach >>>> centerpulls like the Rene Herse or Grand Bois MAFAC clones. >>>> >>>> -Jeremy Till >>>> Sacramento, CA >>>> >>>> On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 8:24:37 AM UTC-8 [email protected] >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ryan, >>>>> Thanks for that...if Jan likes them, I'm sure I would, too. His one >>>>> gripe, though, is that they don't open up wide enough to clear a 31mm >>>>> tire. >>>>> I take off my front wheel to transport my bike to trails...I guess I could >>>>> just deflate/inflate when I do that. I'll give it some thought. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks again, >>>>> Ben >>>>> >>>>> On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 10:11:32 AM UTC-6 Ryan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> VO Grand Cru brakes are good. Jan Heine reviewed them very favorably >>>>>> here. Not dead cheap but they're good looking and they work well. I >>>>>> replaced some Super Record brakes with these paired with TRP RRL's and I >>>>>> have no complaints. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.renehersecycles.com/product-test-velo-orange-grand-cru-brakes/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 9:24:34 AM UTC-6 Shoji Takahashi >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Ben, >>>>>>> For rim brakes, it's hard to beat the power of V-brakes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Side-pull R559 is at a further disadvantage because of the arm >>>>>>> length. They worked ok on my AHH, but I changed to Paul centerpulls, >>>>>>> which >>>>>>> seem to have more power. I recall reading that VO's Grand Cru brakes >>>>>>> work >>>>>>> well-- perhaps because they're beefier than R559. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (Also consider the brake pads. Riv seems to like the "ebike" Kool >>>>>>> Stop pad.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Good luck! >>>>>>> shoji >>>>>>> Arlington MA >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Monday, December 20, 2021 at 10:02:43 AM UTC-5 [email protected] >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Good morning! >>>>>>>> I picked up a 2013 Sam in late October and LOVE it for a billion >>>>>>>> different reasons. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> However...one area where I really prefer my Atlantis is braking. I >>>>>>>> have the Shimano DXR MX70 levers and v-brakes on the Atlantis and I >>>>>>>> feel >>>>>>>> like the stopping power is incredible. This is my commuter bike, set up >>>>>>>> with chocos for upright riding with lots of stops. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sam has Shimano Tiagra levers and the Tektro r559 brakes. They just >>>>>>>> feel a million times weaker. I can stop, but it's a much more gradual >>>>>>>> experience than the v-brakes. The braking feels squishy. Like...I pull >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> levers and the pads hit the rims, but I can keep pulling the levers and >>>>>>>> there's just not much that happens in terms of stopping. It's almost >>>>>>>> as if >>>>>>>> not enough force gets transferred into the pads. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The brakes are set up correctly, slight toe-in, arm that moves up >>>>>>>> toward the rim has pad touching at bottom of braking surface, arm that >>>>>>>> moves down toward rim has pad at top of braking surface. I think they >>>>>>>> contact the rim with the appropriate amount of movement of the lever, >>>>>>>> too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm about to re-do all cables and housings (even though it kind of >>>>>>>> kills me to undo one of Mark's bar wrap jobs). Any tips on getting a >>>>>>>> little >>>>>>>> better braking out of this setup, or are the r559s just going to not >>>>>>>> be as >>>>>>>> good as v-brakes no matter how nicely they're set up? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for any and all thoughts! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ben in Omaha >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>> >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>> >>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d26a0a44-9157-41a9-8003-fed3d4b5c55an%40googlegroups.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d26a0a44-9157-41a9-8003-fed3d4b5c55an%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4d1611dd-788d-46a3-ba79-22f3543b757fn%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4d1611dd-788d-46a3-ba79-22f3543b757fn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgsKD%3Dwy1F88qBAGGj%3Ds81ODF9Bu%2B8OHX57JkQqMQFvbRQ%40mail.gmail.com.
