I don't find my rear V-brake to be all that spongy to be honest. Maybe it's the Paul lever and arms - but more likely it's just about good brake housing. Full length housing is always squishier, of course, but I don't see how putting caliper brakes on solves the problem - just reducing braking power to reduce housing compression?? Not to mention adding MORE overall flex through flexier brake arms..
On Mon, May 2, 2022 at 9:13 AM Eric Daume <ericda...@gmail.com> wrote: > Mini V brakes seem like a lost middle ground IMO. Either use V brakes with > long pull levers, or cantis with short pull levers. > > Either one of these option would be far better than long reach caliper > brakes, which are too flexy for good braking. > > Eric > > On Monday, May 2, 2022, Pancake <abe.gard...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I want canti posts because I want v-brakes on this bike. The reference in >> a prior email or blagh or somewhere by Riv said something like, 'they left >> to spongy or squishy or something' ... and they're right. At least on my >> 57cm prototype. >> >> I tried the Shimano BR-R353 with 90mm long arms ... way too soft a feel >> at the brake levers (using TRP RRL brakes). Needed to setup the pads less >> than 2mm from the rim on each side which leaves no room for less than true >> rims. And the brake levers pull all the way to the handlebar ... though >> they brake plenty hard and strong way before that point. The braking is >> nearly too easy (tremendous mechanical advantage) but feels easy or soft as >> you pull. >> >> Switching to an 84mm arm Tektro brake helped but not dramatically, just >> noticeably. >> >> Switching to 82mm Litepro arms helped enough that I'll stay with this >> setup, but it's still a bit soft. And there not much of any room left for >> the brake cable to clear the 50mm knobbie tires I have on now (Schwalbe >> G-One Allround). >> >> I'm used to v-brakes feeling pretty solid as you pull the lever, that's >> how my Rosco baby bike and nearly every other v-braked bike I've owned >> operated. Solid pressure at the fingers as you pull and hit a point where >> you can't pull more (and the brake pads were engaged fully long before that >> pull point regardless). >> >> I bet a 75mm brake arm v-brake and a 38mm tire would work with the >> pressure and pull feel I expect, but that's not an option as far as I know >> (or want). >> >> *Ultimately I'll probably do what Jason did and switch to upright bars >> and linear pull long arm v-brakes. Right now I have swapped some levers and >> a stem on my Albatross bars (mounted upside down so they drop a bit like >> the Albastash (which the protocharlie arrived with) and I expect that (plus >> some MX70 brake arms) would leave me with the expected brake feel. I'm on >> the lookout for 60mm wide, 25.4mm clamp diameter Tosco bars to try instead >> *(I >> have 55cm Toscos but they're happy on the Cheviot for now). >> >> Perhaps it's just my setup or bike, but the brake posts seem to be offset >> by about 2mm (requiring a spacer switch on the pads to make up the >> difference) which makes the narrow clearance of the pads on short pull >> v-brake arms even more cumbersome. >> >> Love the Charlie ride feel though - best of the Cheviot (probably from >> the long stays and low step over) and the Sam (accelerates even quicker, >> just feels fast in a way the Cheviot doesn't even though my chev has 42mm >> smooth basketball tires and the Charles has 50mm knobbies). >> >> Very happy with the Charles, but I suspect absent some meaningful changes >> (that I suspect would make it less road-ish) the canti arms as on the >> prototypes were not quite right. If this were meant for upright bars and >> standard linear pull v-brakes I bet they'd have had an easy decision to >> stick with canti-posts, but for a bike meant for drop bars I can see why >> they went the other way. >> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 04:10:50 UTC-7 brendonoid wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the review I enjoyed it! I think you are right about the >>> canti posts but I suspect it is much too late to change it. >>> >>> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 12:24:02 UTC+8 Jason Fuller wrote: >>> >>>> I started a review of mine, to pay back the privilege of owning one >>>> already! I haven't so much as proofread it, let alone edit it, so bear >>>> that in mind >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.jasonmytail.com/75-day-700km-review-rivendell-charlie-h-gallop/ >>>> >>>> On Saturday, 12 March 2022 at 17:45:11 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I love both of these builds. I can imagine the Albatross work well. I >>>>> enjoyed running Billie bars on mine. >>>>> On Saturday, March 12, 2022 at 8:39:14 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Very nice Abe! I can believe it on the climbing - the long rear end >>>>>> makes a world of a difference for climbing, I find! >>>>>> >>>>>> Not much has changed on mine since I last posted it - the Albatross >>>>>> bars feel perfect on this bike for me, even though it's suited to drops >>>>>> or >>>>>> moustache bars. Granted, I'm using it a bit differently than intended >>>>>> too. >>>>>> I've put a used dynamo front wheel on and am embracing the mismatched >>>>>> wheels. Here's a pic of it on my way to donate some excess tires and >>>>>> parts >>>>>> to the local non-profit bike shop today. No plans to change a thing! I'll >>>>>> put some RH Barlow Pass endurance on eventually, but I want to wear these >>>>>> out first >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 11, 2022 at 4:44 PM Pancake <abe.g...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Here's my 57cm prototype Charlie update and build: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/DUpFlP27OE4/m/HZb6bU5XBAAJ >>>>>>> [image: IMG_3522.jpg][image: IMG_3550.jpg][image: IMG_3551.jpg][image: >>>>>>> IMG_3556.jpg] >>>>>>> More pics here: https://imgur.com/a/RiI8NN4 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> My friend caught this 57cm Charlie prototype for me a few weeks ago >>>>>>> - my ideal Riv since I want v-brakes (that my Sam and Cheviot lack). >>>>>>> Sadly, >>>>>>> this will end up replacing my Sam, but what a replacement! Vs. Sam: No >>>>>>> more >>>>>>> toe clip overlap, more chainstay length, climbs better (this surprised >>>>>>> me), >>>>>>> and more comfortable (for me at least). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I swapped nearly everything from my Hillborne onto the Charlie (and >>>>>>> vice versa): >>>>>>> Frame - Charlie H Gallop 57cm prototype with canti posts >>>>>>> Wheelset - VO Voyager rims, DT Swiss Competition (double butted) >>>>>>> spokes, SP (Shutter Precision) PV-8 dynamo hub in front, Bitex rear hub, >>>>>>> Salsa skewers >>>>>>> Stem - Nitto technomic 70mm (IIRC) >>>>>>> Handlebars – Soma Portola (52cm wide at bar ends, 48cm at hoods) >>>>>>> Brake levers – TRP RRL >>>>>>> Brakes - rear CX70 canti, front Shimano BR-R353 (will replace with >>>>>>> Tektro 926al which has 85mm arms vs 90mm on the Shimanos ... they work >>>>>>> well >>>>>>> but the levers don't quite pull enough to feel right with the long >>>>>>> arms). >>>>>>> Koolstop e-brake pads in front. >>>>>>> Handlbar tape - will replace random rainbow stuff with Newbaums some >>>>>>> day. >>>>>>> Seatpost - Nitto S83 >>>>>>> Seat - Brooks Flyer (but may replace with B17s or C19) >>>>>>> Crankset - Sugino clipper triple 26/36/46 ... will replace with VO >>>>>>> 46/30 double >>>>>>> Cassette – Suntour 11-40t 9 speed >>>>>>> Front derailleur – Riv put on a Blue Line, it is JUST enough range >>>>>>> to shift to the tallest chainring, but only just. >>>>>>> Rear derailer - nexus rapid rise, it doesn't have quite enough >>>>>>> spring tension with this setup to keep from skipping under hard >>>>>>> pedaling, >>>>>>> I'll try the XT rapid rise and hope that works better like it did on the >>>>>>> Sam. >>>>>>> Pedals – Kona Wah Wah - 118mm x 120mm >>>>>>> Tires – Schwalbe G-One Allround 700 x 50mm >>>>>>> Lights - IQ-XS in front and Secula in back >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Abe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, 17 February 2022 at 19:57:32 UTC-8 Johnny Alien wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I had the same issue with the stem but didn't attribute it to being >>>>>>>> a prototype. I can't use taller stems at all because they just don't >>>>>>>> go >>>>>>>> down deep enough. Is that not the case with standard Riv's? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I used Billie's and really enjoyed it. It's clear that the frame >>>>>>>> was built for sweptbacks. >>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 10:38:28 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Update - put on the Albatross bars. One kind of annoying nuance to >>>>>>>>> this prototype frame is that they didn't ream the steerer as deep as >>>>>>>>> they >>>>>>>>> do for their production bikes, so I can't get the stem quite as low >>>>>>>>> as I >>>>>>>>> wanted, but it's close enough that it doesn't warrant buying a new >>>>>>>>> stem. >>>>>>>>> That said, I am actually quite floored by how much the Albatross >>>>>>>>> brought >>>>>>>>> this bike to life for what I want from it. I've run these bars on a >>>>>>>>> few >>>>>>>>> bikes but this is the best they've felt on any bike for me. It's >>>>>>>>> feeling >>>>>>>>> very right to me now. I know it's meant to be a roadish bike but I'd >>>>>>>>> sooner >>>>>>>>> put drops on a Homer or Hillborne; to me this bike suits the >>>>>>>>> Albatross so >>>>>>>>> perfectly. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, 15 February 2022 at 19:46:08 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Photo from today's lunchtime loop. I will be performing a >>>>>>>>>> bar/stem swap between this bike and the Bombadil (which is 11cm >>>>>>>>>> Tallux and >>>>>>>>>> Albatross) as well as cabling etc, then I believe the bike is "done" >>>>>>>>>> for a >>>>>>>>>> bit. Oh, and a cheap dynamo front wheel because a commuter must have >>>>>>>>>> dynamo >>>>>>>>>> in my books. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> As much as I would not pick these tires for myself, I must admit >>>>>>>>>> they're pretty well suited to my needs (daily commuting and general >>>>>>>>>> getting >>>>>>>>>> around on pavement and hardpack paths) so I am going to do my best >>>>>>>>>> to leave >>>>>>>>>> them well enough alone. I was quite pleased to see they clear the VO >>>>>>>>>> Zeppelin fenders with plenty of room despite being at the top end of >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> fitment range. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Has anyone tried shellac'ing over the padded Newbaums? Yay or >>>>>>>>>> nay? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> [image: PXL_20220215_222746275.jpg] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, 14 February 2022 at 10:11:31 UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Very cool, thank ya both! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 12:32:32 PM UTC-5 Johnny Alien >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> At that point I really think it comes down to builds. A SH >>>>>>>>>>>> built up lightish could feel much more nimble and quick than a >>>>>>>>>>>> Gallop with >>>>>>>>>>>> full racks, fenders, heavy tires etc. I agree with Jason that >>>>>>>>>>>> built the >>>>>>>>>>>> same they would likely feel pretty similar. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, February 14, 2022 at 12:22:18 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't offer a very good A-B comparison based on their >>>>>>>>>>>>> setups, though they've both been set up with the Wavie bar at one >>>>>>>>>>>>> point or >>>>>>>>>>>>> another, but my feel so far is that they're not too different >>>>>>>>>>>>> from one >>>>>>>>>>>>> another - I noticed from the attached engineering drawings that >>>>>>>>>>>>> the tubing >>>>>>>>>>>>> is quite similar spec, though a bit more flex built into the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Charlie, and >>>>>>>>>>>>> the angles are similar also (some math required on the CHG but >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's HTA 71 >>>>>>>>>>>>> / 71.5 STA). They both seem to possess that 'surprisingly quick >>>>>>>>>>>>> considering >>>>>>>>>>>>> it's so comfortable' quality, but my belief is that it would be >>>>>>>>>>>>> marginal >>>>>>>>>>>>> gains at best going from a Sam to a CHG in terms of speed, with >>>>>>>>>>>>> the same >>>>>>>>>>>>> setup. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 6:48 AM Eric Marth <eric...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Gallop riders – Does anyone have a take on the Gallop in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> contrast to an unloaded Hillborne with drops? I know Jason has a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hillborne >>>>>>>>>>>>>> but racked and fendered. Curious how they compare :) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:31:56 AM UTC-5 Johnny >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alien wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Killer! I can't wait to see it. Make sure to post it up here >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when its done. The extra few mm of height on those mini-v's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> perfect. I have the Box mini's and they cleared a real world >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 48mm tire with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just a touch of clearance. The extra bit of height should allow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> clear 50's. I plan to move to Rivendell V's when they are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> available only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I love the way they are looking from the early drawings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and such. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 9:17:25 AM UTC-5 Pancake >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Johny: yes, my friend was quick on the draw and got it for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me because they knew it was my ideal version of a Charlie - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gotta have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those canti/v-brake posts. It’ll end up replacing my Sam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hillborne. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now Charlie’s sitting (ironically with no saddle) in my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> garage waiting for a few quick changes (replace the C15 narrow >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saddle with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> my Flyer imperial, add a rack and basket) before getting some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> commuter duty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a nice long ride next weekend… then more tinkering and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> changes to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> follow like: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> • Mini v-brakes (likely Shimano BR R353 with 90mm arch, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> taller than the Box Two or Three 85mm mini v’s), >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> • Swapping for my Hillborne’s wheelset (first wheels I >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> built) with G-One Allround 50mm tires >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> • Dynamo lights, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> • 46/30t double crankset to a 11-40t cassette (which may >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> require a wolftooth-like hanger extender), and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> • Kona Wah Wah pedals. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now I just need some spare time for wrenching … but I’ll >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> probably spend that time riding my daughters around in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rosco Baby bike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead. The highest form of productive procrastination. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, 11 February 2022 at 16:51:41 UTC-8 Johnny Alien >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pancake, so you got the third Gallop V1 prototype? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 7:18:18 PM UTC-5 Pancake >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drop bar Sam checking in per David's request/comment ... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> soon to be replaced by another Proto Charlie (photos of that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> orange 57cm to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> come later). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: IMG_3134.JPG] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: IMG_7170.jpg] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> topic in the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/j5vUNKjgsUE/unsubscribe >>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c76ba657-1a75-47ac-8c8d-753a07704a5dn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/c76ba657-1a75-47ac-8c8d-753a07704a5dn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> . >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in >>>>>>> the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/j5vUNKjgsUE/unsubscribe >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >>>>>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1b907f7e-dad5-499b-853f-70db49af81e0n%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/1b907f7e-dad5-499b-853f-70db49af81e0n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/37941975-ff71-4c1b-9472-08d268fed3b5n%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/37941975-ff71-4c1b-9472-08d268fed3b5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/j5vUNKjgsUE/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAHFNW5CTLCv_dM%2Bcmer5q%2B-HThP3NBFZzdsHGLnuPztTctUOSQ%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CAHFNW5CTLCv_dM%2Bcmer5q%2B-HThP3NBFZzdsHGLnuPztTctUOSQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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