Ooops, didn't see your update just before I posted. Glad you got it worked out!
On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 8:16:54 PM UTC-5 Danny wrote: > I'm curious to hear what ends up resolving the issue. I hope it's as easy > as a new cassette, but I'm most intrigued by it being related to the > elongated hole. > > Re: alignment tools, after borrowing my friend's Park DAG a handful of > times over a few months, I decided to buy my own tool. Ended up with the > Wolf Tooth one that Stephen linked to. Have only used it once so far, but I > found it to work quite well. Doesn't take up much room in the drawer, and I > don't have to endure the frequent screeching of metal sliding on metal that > I experienced with the Park tool. > > -Danny > > On Thu, Aug 3, 2023 at 7:52 PM Eric Marth <eric...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> George: Thanks for reading along! Yes, the Helicoil seems like a more >> robust solution, I agree. >> >> Jason: Noted! If only Riv would bring back those beefy headset presses >> they got a super limited run of a few years ago. Never need one but... they >> seemed awesome. >> >> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 8:21:45 PM UTC-4 Jason Fuller wrote: >> >>> Eric, you've *got* to get a DAG alignment tool! The heavy steel one, >>> avoid the new lighter one. It's a must have for the home mechanic of fine >>> steel frames that do not have replaceable hangers. I use it every time the >>> derailleur is pulled off for any reason, or if I'm having any stubborn >>> shifting issue - it's amazing how often it's just because the alignment was >>> out slightly. >>> >>> On Thursday, 3 August 2023 at 12:17:13 UTC-7 George Schick wrote: >>> >>>> This is one of the more interesting posts/threads having to do with >>>> bike repairs that has come along in awhile (with no intention to downplay >>>> the unfortunate accident!). I like the final post about a Helicoil or >>>> dropout saver recommendation. My own preference would likely be the >>>> Helicoil because you have to tap in new larger diameter threads in order >>>> to >>>> install the coil, which seems like it would stabilize the damaged hanger >>>> better. Having view the dropout saver at the Wheels Mfg. website, I'm not >>>> sure how well that would work in this case. >>>> >>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 1:21:37 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Further ideas: Antonio at Riv suggested getting a Helicoil tool in the >>>>> M10x1.0 size to repair the bolt hole. Brian Chapman recommended >>>>> installing >>>>> a Wheels Mfg. dropout saver. Either would attempt to repair the bolt >>>>> hole. >>>>> >>>>> I'm open to trying either of those fixes as well. >>>>> >>>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 2:17:55 PM UTC-4 Eric Marth wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Thanks for the replies, everyone. >>>>>> >>>>>> A few asked about the chain jumping/skipping/slipping. When the chain >>>>>> is under load it slips or clunks repeatedly. It's kind of like when >>>>>> you're >>>>>> in the wrong gear and you need to trim the gear to get it right. But no >>>>>> amount of trimming is fixing the issue. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've tried three different derailers, same problem. The cassette was >>>>>> new in summer of 2022 and I haven't ridden in the three big gears enough >>>>>> to >>>>>> wear out the teeth of the cogs. It's an S-Ride 7s from Rivendell, it's >>>>>> an >>>>>> 11-32. The crank is the same age, installed last summer. SunXCD crank >>>>>> with >>>>>> TA Specialites rings, 42/26. I don't see any issues with the wheel (it's >>>>>> running true) or with worn cassette or chainring teeth. Also no play in >>>>>> the >>>>>> freehub body. >>>>>> >>>>>> The elongated hole: It could be the derailer is flexing in the hole, >>>>>> hard to determine this off the bike. Derailer seems seated when I try to >>>>>> move it around in my hand, doesn't wobble. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have *not yet* tried installing a different wheel and cassette. >>>>>> That will be next. Should have tried that *much* earlier in the >>>>>> process. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 11:57:01 AM UTC-4 Jim Whorton wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Oops, I just noticed Stephen had already made the point about the >>>>>>> derailleur possibly wiggling in the hole. Yes— what Stephen said. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jim >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 11:52:54 AM UTC-4 Jim Whorton wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Even though it’s threading in smoothly, I wonder if that elongated >>>>>>>> hole is the problem. Wonder if that bolt is moving under tension. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I’m not a bike mechanic by any means but I did spring for the Park >>>>>>>> Derailleur Hanger Alignment Gauge awhile back and I’m glad. I have >>>>>>>> used it >>>>>>>> on old frames and on a new Riv frame I built up recently. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On YouTube, RJ the Bike Guy has a good video on building a homemade >>>>>>>> dropout alignment gauge, also useful: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PsU8IkkFaok >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jim in Rochester, NY >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 11:08:28 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.jensonusa.com/Wolf-Tooth-Hanger-Alignment-Tool >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 10:41:54 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hey Eric, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Been loosely following along. Glad you were ok in the accident >>>>>>>>>> but sheesh, what a bummer it did so much damage. Id vote along with >>>>>>>>>> others >>>>>>>>>> for getting a hanger alignment tool, or figuring out how to make one >>>>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>>>> yourself. i bought a wolf tooth variety ( i prefer the way it >>>>>>>>>> references to >>>>>>>>>> the hub vs rim) not too long ago and dont regret the investment. I >>>>>>>>>> bought >>>>>>>>>> after knocking my appaloosa over on the drive side. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I will say i am curious too whether there might be something else >>>>>>>>>> going on to cause the skipping.. when my hanger was bent it was only >>>>>>>>>> noticeable that when in my biggest cassette ring the derailer would >>>>>>>>>> go into >>>>>>>>>> the wheel. may depend on what way its bended. I’m curious if the >>>>>>>>>> derailer >>>>>>>>>> may have any wiggle in the elongated hole. have you tried subbing in >>>>>>>>>> another derailer or chain to test the system? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I encourage you to keep trying to solve on your own before >>>>>>>>>> reaching the final solution of frame repair or sending cross >>>>>>>>>> country, which >>>>>>>>>> would be time consuming and expensive. I can’t imagine what antonio >>>>>>>>>> or mark >>>>>>>>>> would do that you or someone more experienced on the east coast >>>>>>>>>> couldnt >>>>>>>>>> achieve. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -stephen >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, August 3, 2023 at 9:33:06 AM UTC-4 CJ wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Can you elaborate on "the chain skips"? A misaligned derailleur >>>>>>>>>>> hanger will cause shifting to be sub-optimal, but unless the hanger >>>>>>>>>>> is so >>>>>>>>>>> bent that the derailleur is way, way out of whack, it can't make >>>>>>>>>>> the chain >>>>>>>>>>> skip. Skipping chains are caused by worn or damaged chains and/or >>>>>>>>>>> cogs. >>>>>>>>>>> Have you checked your cassette cogs for damage? Try a new chain and >>>>>>>>>>> cassette? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Another thing to check, are your dropouts aligned? Is the wheel >>>>>>>>>>> still sitting straight in the frame? Dropout alignment tools are >>>>>>>>>>> nice to >>>>>>>>>>> have, but pricey and you shouldn't need them often. You can >>>>>>>>>>> improvise with >>>>>>>>>>> threaded rod and a handful of hardware. Google is your friend. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you own multiple bikes, you should own a derailleur hanger >>>>>>>>>>> alignment tool. I have an inexpensive "Cyclospirit" one, and it's >>>>>>>>>>> paid for >>>>>>>>>>> itself many times over. It's maybe a little more fiddly to use than >>>>>>>>>>> an >>>>>>>>>>> expensive, name-brand tool, but it works. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> CJ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:20:22 PM UTC-4 >>>>>>>>>>> eric...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Okay, some mild updates. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I've bent and tweaked the hanger with crescent wrenches at least >>>>>>>>>>> two dozen times now. Worked on it during the miserable heat wave >>>>>>>>>>> here and >>>>>>>>>>> during nicer weather yesterday. During the process I remove the >>>>>>>>>>> chain and >>>>>>>>>>> the derailer, tweak the hanger, re-install the chain and derailer, >>>>>>>>>>> test >>>>>>>>>>> ride. Repeat. Over and over! Every time I ride the bike the chain >>>>>>>>>>> skips. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I've tried aligning by hand and eye. I've used a series of >>>>>>>>>>> straight edges, trying to reference off the cassette to the face of >>>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>>> derailer hanger where the derailer sits. I can get the straight >>>>>>>>>>> edges into >>>>>>>>>>> plane with one another but evidently that's not enough because the >>>>>>>>>>> chain >>>>>>>>>>> still jumps. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I feel like I can finesse this thing back into working order but >>>>>>>>>>> I have so far been unsuccessful. The hanger is relatively flat >>>>>>>>>>> considering >>>>>>>>>>> how mangled it got. It's considerably better than it was. The bolt >>>>>>>>>>> hole is >>>>>>>>>>> elongated but fortunately derailer bolts screw in nicely and the >>>>>>>>>>> threads >>>>>>>>>>> feel good. Through all my uninstalling/reinstalling the bolts >>>>>>>>>>> thread in >>>>>>>>>>> nicely each time. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> One problem is that the guys at the LBS have put their dropout >>>>>>>>>>> and hanger alignment tools on the bike and they say the tools show >>>>>>>>>>> things >>>>>>>>>>> are aligned. *But* they are also audibly and visibly weary of >>>>>>>>>>> putting too much torque on the hanger and seem to think it's going >>>>>>>>>>> to shear >>>>>>>>>>> off the frame if they look at it funny. I don't think that's going >>>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>>> happen. I talked to Grant about this twice now and he doesn't think >>>>>>>>>>> that's >>>>>>>>>>> going to happen, either. He shared an acedote wherein he bent a >>>>>>>>>>> derailer >>>>>>>>>>> hanger through 180º of motion several times before the hanger >>>>>>>>>>> sheared off. >>>>>>>>>>> I'm not moving mine nearly as much, just a bit at a time. And today >>>>>>>>>>> I heard >>>>>>>>>>> Grant Petersen say "Steel is magical." So I'm adding that to my >>>>>>>>>>> lifetime >>>>>>>>>>> book of memorable quotes by notable people. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> There's another shop in town but I get bad vibes every time I go >>>>>>>>>>> in there so I'm going to spare myself and stay away. I know if I go >>>>>>>>>>> in >>>>>>>>>>> there it'll end up being a bad scene and I'll regret it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I'm open to having a builder try to align the hanger, heat it up >>>>>>>>>>> and shape it or braze a new dropout onto the frame. But the builder >>>>>>>>>>> I know >>>>>>>>>>> and have worked with before on three other bikes (this Hillborne >>>>>>>>>>> included) >>>>>>>>>>> has sold his tools and retired. Two other nearby builders haven't >>>>>>>>>>> returned >>>>>>>>>>> my messages. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Now I'm thinking the best next step is to drop > $100 on a >>>>>>>>>>> derailer hanger alignment tool and try it myself in the home shop. >>>>>>>>>>> Looking >>>>>>>>>>> at the Park Tool DAG 2.2. This eliminates the hesitancy of other >>>>>>>>>>> mechanics >>>>>>>>>>> (I'm not afraid to wreck the bike) and gives me a useful tool to >>>>>>>>>>> have >>>>>>>>>>> forever. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Full options going forward (as I see them, open to suggestions >>>>>>>>>>> as always): >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> - Buy a gauge and adjust it myself until I'm satisfied or I >>>>>>>>>>> give up and advance to next option >>>>>>>>>>> - Take it to a shop >>>>>>>>>>> - Go-to shop seems afraid to break my hanger, I don't >>>>>>>>>>> think that's going to happen but they are audibly and visibly >>>>>>>>>>> weary. >>>>>>>>>>> - Other shop in town I avoid at all costs and don't want >>>>>>>>>>> to take my bikes to them >>>>>>>>>>> - Get a new dropout welded onto the bike >>>>>>>>>>> - I wouldn't mind doing this but I can't find a builder >>>>>>>>>>> in my area >>>>>>>>>>> - Contacted three people. One retired, the other two >>>>>>>>>>> haven't responded. >>>>>>>>>>> - Send it to Rivendell >>>>>>>>>>> - Grant thinks Mark or Antonio can fix the hanger. Cool! >>>>>>>>>>> - Grant said to send the bike stripped down, no fork. How >>>>>>>>>>> are they going to align and test it to see if the chain >>>>>>>>>>> jumps? >>>>>>>>>>> - I don't reaaaally want to freight the bike >>>>>>>>>>> coast-to-coast twice. Not a dealbreaker, tho. >>>>>>>>>>> - Grant said if Mark or Antonio can't get it he knows a >>>>>>>>>>> builder who can do the repair but it could be three months >>>>>>>>>>> before I get the >>>>>>>>>>> bike back. >>>>>>>>>>> - This leads me back to... >>>>>>>>>>> - Buy a gauge and adjust it myself >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you've made it this far, wow, you are invested in this >>>>>>>>>>> repair! Thanks for checking in. I'll post more updates as they >>>>>>>>>>> develop. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wednesday, August 2, 2023 at 11:03:10 PM UTC-4 Eric Marth >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, Ryan. Yes, I think the cost for the repair would be >>>>>>>>>>> reasonable. I worry the cost to freight the frame would be a little >>>>>>>>>>> painful >>>>>>>>>>> and the time without the bike could be considerable depending on >>>>>>>>>>> how it >>>>>>>>>>> shakes out. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The poster is the MTB countryside illustration, same illustrator >>>>>>>>>>> who did yours. "Get away fast on a Bridgestone" or something like >>>>>>>>>>> that. >>>>>>>>>>> Hills, dirt road, country church. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 7:36:10 AM UTC-4 Ryan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yikes! That is too bad but I'm glad you weren't hurt. I know you >>>>>>>>>>> are very ingenious, but maybe the frame needs to be sent to Riv for >>>>>>>>>>> repair? >>>>>>>>>>> Who will no doubt do the repair at a reasonable cost >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Which poster? I have the "saddle up on a bridgestone"...my >>>>>>>>>>> favorite of the Grant-inspired ones...the one with the rider on a >>>>>>>>>>> roadbike >>>>>>>>>>> alongside a galloping horse. Can't remember if I bought it from >>>>>>>>>>> Rivendell >>>>>>>>>>> or from a friend of mine who built many of my wheels and at one >>>>>>>>>>> time was a >>>>>>>>>>> bridgestone dealer and sold me my 1993 X0-1 that I still have >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 1, 2023 at 4:55:39 AM UTC-5 R. Alexis wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> That does not look good. Maybe once you get it into a stand and >>>>>>>>>>> carefully remove the derailleur and gently realign the hanger you >>>>>>>>>>> will be >>>>>>>>>>> fine. The rear der pully cage can probably be bent back into shape. >>>>>>>>>>> Issue >>>>>>>>>>> is probably trusting it. Hope things work out. Glad you were not >>>>>>>>>>> hurt. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Reginald Alexis >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 23, 2023 at 2:13:02 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hey gang — I was out for a Sunday ride and stopped to take a >>>>>>>>>>> picture. I rolled to the side of the road and did not see the >>>>>>>>>>> culvert, >>>>>>>>>>> hidden with fresh grass clippings. I tumbled over at low speed. I'm >>>>>>>>>>> fine! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> When I stood up I noticed my drive-side bar end shifter had >>>>>>>>>>> rotated 90º. And my derailer hanger and the derailer were bent. I >>>>>>>>>>> spun the >>>>>>>>>>> crank while off the bike and it seemed to move okay so I thought >>>>>>>>>>> I'd give >>>>>>>>>>> it a go as a single speed. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I pedaled for a few strokes, then nudged the shifter. It was at >>>>>>>>>>> that time the derailer turned upside down and inside out, bending >>>>>>>>>>> into the >>>>>>>>>>> spokes and throwing the chain. It was really fun! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> [image: Screenshot 2023-07-23 at 3.05.28 PM.png] >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This is my Hillborne, my most-ridden bike. I'll see if the >>>>>>>>>>> hanger can be bent but I have a feeling it will require some work >>>>>>>>>>> from a >>>>>>>>>>> frame builder. That's a Suntour Cyclone. Fortunately I have five of >>>>>>>>>>> them >>>>>>>>>>> (including this one). You might recall the cage tension spring in >>>>>>>>>>> my >>>>>>>>>>> previous Cyclone recently failed. This is one of the replacements I >>>>>>>>>>> picked >>>>>>>>>>> up. It was in excellent shape but now it's going to the salvage >>>>>>>>>>> bin. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> While I was waiting for a ride four people stopped to ask if >>>>>>>>>>> they could help me. One was a cyclist who said "You need anything?" >>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>>>>> replied "I need derailer hanger, a rear mech and a welding torch!" >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hope your weekend rides weren't so mechanically eventful. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "RBW Owners Bunch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8cf3f482-9e7f-462b-ae6e-edbb2ff65c52n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/8cf3f482-9e7f-462b-ae6e-edbb2ff65c52n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 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