I have been scolded for discussing such heresy in the past, but the most obvious cost savings I can think of for Riv frames would be to switch from threaded to threadless steerers. With threadless, one fork fits all frames. With threaded, each frame size takes a different fork. This means extra forks must be stocked in each size for warranty replacements, etc, plus, I assume, making 4 or 5 different forks in smaller quantities is more expensive than making one fork in a larger quantity. Obviously, I don't know how the threaded-fork penalty compares to the other costs in frame production, but I wouldn't be surprised if it adds $100+ to each frameset at the retail level. I don't have experience with 2TT or diagonal tube frames, but I do have experience to suggest a 1-1/8" threadless system feels MUCH sturdier under load than does a bike with a 1" threaded system on otherwise similar frames.
As for disc brakes, I prefer the way hydraulics feel and self-adjust, but sometimes sacrificing the drop bar is too much, so I go mechanical. The good ones all work, when set up properly. On Thursday, September 6, 2012 6:29:35 PM UTC-5, dougP wrote: > > This thread started out talking about a "budget Riv...". I realize > it's hard to see how a few extra tabs, etc., to handle discs could > impact the cost too much, and of course Rivs come with plenty of ways > to hang on racks & fenders. However, I heard Dave Moulton speak > (years ago when he was still building frames) and he made the point > that it was difficult to justify to his customers the additional cost > for adding various eyelets, rack mounts, etc., that tourists demand & > racers don't. More fiddly bits can really up the cost a surprising > amount. > > If Grant decided to add disc brake fittings, I would expect it to be > on the $2,000 frames, esp. the Atlantis & Bombadil. I've only ridden > disc braked bikes a couple of times and was impressed. My Atlantis > now has V-brakes (replaced Tektro 720 cantis) which I like a lot but > would go for a disc brake option. Braking changes a lot when you load > up the bike with its own weight & go whistling down long hills. > > Of course, Riv went thru a big inventory reduction end of last year, > so I wouldn't look for them to embrace stocking yet another kind of > hub, brake, levers, etc., plus the frame redesign work to offer > discs. In any case, it's always fun to speculate The Next Big > Thing. > > dougP > > On Sep 6, 10:29 am, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery <thill....@gmail.com> > wrote: > > It's certainly true that there's seldom, if ever, a "screaming need for > > discs". But we're pretty far down the road past "screaming need" for ANY > of > > the gadgetry we chat about in this forum. I personally know a number of > > people who do not consider worthwhile any bike innovation that isn't > > included on a 1950s English 3sp. I've ridden old 3-speeds plenty, and I > see > > the charm, but occasionally I think the technologies developed over the > > ensuing half-century have earned a place in my 21st Century > bicycle-centric > > life. > > > > IMO, a sturdy, fat-tire Riv with capability to handle BOTH > > cantilevers/v-brakes and discs would be a neat thing - sort of a > prettier > > functional-equivalent to the Surly Troll or Ogre. I think it would > broaden > > the appeal to potential customers who appreciate Riv's aesthetic > stylings > > and general approach, but aren't committed to using the same types of > parts > > mountain bikers were stuck with 25 years ago. Obviously, the true retro > > connoisseurs will scoff at the superfluous disc brake tabs they'd never > use > > in a million years, but the scoffers will be offset by those who'll > embrace > > the added versatility. I count myself among the "embracers of > versatility", > > by the way. > > > > I'm not saying disc brakes are 100% necessary at all, but some > concession > > to modernity and, more importantly, diversity in the product line, would > > seem to be a good thing for Riv. Otherwise, it seems like we'll have > > another heavy-duty Riv frame that competes for the same seemingly > limited > > pool of customers who are considering the Atlantis, Hunqapillar, > Bombadil, > > Hillborne, etc. Something as simple as disc tabs would be a standout > among > > the excellent, but overlapping frames that are already available, and > > would, I think, make a splash among a whole new pool of potential > customers. > > > > > > > > On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 4:04:45 PM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote: > > > > > Seems to me for a budget bike that is almost certainly would be > heavier > > > than the upmarket Rivs, discs will mean extra weight and expense with > > > little benefit for most riders. > > > > > Most people ride on pavement or hard pack trails and then usually when > the > > > weather is fine. In those conditions, decent rim brakes provide all > the > > > stopping power any rider will ever need. Some ride on pavement in > inclement > > > weather where discs have some advantages over rims. But not so much > that > > > there is a screaming need for discs. > > > > > Discs are markedly better off road and on long distance adventure > > > touring. Neither Riv's niche. > > > > > On Wednesday, September 5, 2012 12:42:00 PM UTC-5, Jim Thill - > Hiawatha > > > Cyclery wrote: > > > > >> It seems moderately necessary to point out that there's nothing > specific > > >> to a frame that's made for hydraulic disc brakes that is different > than on > > >> a frame made for cable disc brakes. Therefore, IF Riv makes a bike > for disc > > >> brakes, which seems only a tiny bit likely IMO, there's no need for > any of > > >> us to be forced into one type of brake or another. > > > > >> I like hydraulic brakes. I've been using several models of Avid > > >> hydraulics for about 3 years now, and I've never had one single > problem > > >> with them. They are, for all practical purposes, self-adjusting and > never > > >> seem to make any superfluous noise. It is true, however, that using > > >> hydraulic brakes does limit brake lever options. Think of the > hydraulic > > >> brake/lever as a single unit, rather than the mix and match > experience of > > >> cable-actuated systems. This is a mix-and-match-centric group, I > realize. > > > > >> On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 9:37:17 PM UTC-5, Montclair BobbyB > wrote: > > > > >>> Or hydraulic brakes... I've been riding both cable and hydraulic > disc > > >>> brakes for years, and I'm here to tell you, hydraulic Shimano's (the > older > > >>> style) are the bee's knees... I've never had issues with busted > brake lines > > >>> or poor performance... They're easy to maintain and super > dependable, way > > >>> more dependable than rim brakes! And even the best-adjusted > cable-actuated > > >>> disc brakes can't come close to the hydraulics. The price has come > way > > >>> down on hydraulic brakes... there are few reasons left to go with > cable > > >>> discs... I've been running them on my mountain bikes for years in > all kinds > > >>> of rought weather conditions (including ice and snow). THEY STOP in > all > > >>> kinds of weather! > > > > >>> I'd love to see a disc version Rivendell...although I fear it would > > >>> require a beefier fork (for the forces applied to the lower section > of the > > >>> fork). This might be a challenge to make a beefier fork that looks > > >>> elegant. Then again, I'll bet it's possible to preserve the beauty > in a > > >>> disc version.. Wes Williams (for example) makes a beautifully curved > 29er > > >>> disc fork (the Willits WOW). I love the look of rim brakes, but > > >>> performance wise there's simply no contest between rim and disc > brakes. > > > > >>> Peace, > > >>> BB > > > > >>> On Monday, September 3, 2012 5:53:11 PM UTC-4, James Warren wrote: > > > > >>>> I would like it if this bike were made ready for disc brakes. > > >>>> Mechanical ones.- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/-/a2WKOnTtwdEJ. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
