What a great discussion. As someone who has changed two of his four Rivendell bikes to low trail forks to try to discover what the whole trail thing was about, I can say the following in a completely subjective manner:
- Had I discovered Jan's low trail randonneurs instead of Grant's versatile Rivendell mid-trail bikes, I would have completely missed the boat and would have become convinced that riding any bike pain-free was an utopic dream (for me). - Grant's philosophy of bike design, construction and most importantly fit, allowed me to make that utopic dream a reality with its higher handlebars and other details. All of the low-trail rando bikes I've seen are set up with bars lower than the saddle, which triggers a lot of pain for me and would have made it impossible to enjoy. - It took me several years of riding Grant's bikes and making adjustments progressively to get to the point where I could ride pain free for a couple of hours (the current limit of my fitness/endurance) and enjoy the total ride. It's one thing to suffer for lack of fitness, which you can improve, and another to suffer due to incorrect fit/position due to your body characteristics. I can't explain why I was so slow in adopting the RBW fit philosophy in its totality, but for some reason something in me kept resisting the upright swept-back bars until I finally gave in when Grant launched the Bosco bars. I kept trying to get comfortable on drop bars (and not finding it) and also didn't like the Moustache and Albatross bars when I tried them. - It was only when able to ride pain-free due to Grant's bike philosophy, that exploring other dimensions like low trail finally made sense for me. Remember, just low trail on a Rivendell bike, not the rest of the light tubing rando philosophy. I have the set the goal of trying it out as a reward when I manage to lose around 70-80 lbs. - Will I convert the other two Rivendell bikes to low trail? Not likely. The two issues that triggered this quest for me were shimmy when carrying any load and the desire to carry loads on the front in addition to the rear on my Atlantis and my Hunqapillar. As a bonus, I discovered I not only really like carrying front loads on those bikes, I also enjoy how they ride unloaded as well. - The Betty Foy and the Homer ride very well as they are, and I don't really load them. The Betty is the lowest trail of all the Rivendell bikes I have, and handles beautifully with rear panniers and a commute load. The Homer I pretty much ride unloaded. Is it worth getting a low trail fork for it? I don't think so. I think that when I lose the weight, I'll try to discover what the whole light-tube-low-trail-rando-bike is all about and enrich myself in the process. Until then, I have what I need, and plenty of tweaking and experimenting to do in the meantime! I am thankful I first discovered Rivendell and Grant. Thanks to him and what he stands for, a full and rich horizon in my cycling has opened up for me. One that will always keep the Rivendell philosophy at its core, no matter where the road takes me. And it includes Jan's philosophy as well. And much more. René On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Steve Palincsar <palin...@his.com> wrote: > On Fri, 2013-05-10 at 06:43 -0700, Chris Lampe 2 wrote: > > Some of the things that influence trail include: > > > > fork rake > > head tube angle > > tire width > > rim diameter > > > > I suspect that the following influence the "feel" of trail: > > > > handlebar height > > handlebar width > > point-of-balance on the bicycle > > and amount of load and where carried > > > > > > I've used the trail calculator linked in this thread quit a bit and > > fork rake and head tube each have a significant impact for a given rim > > diameter. Tire width as a small impact. > > Tire width has a small inpact on geometric trail. Tire width has a > large impact on pneumatic trail. The two combine to produce overall > trail. When you widen the tires and increase pneumatic trail, you need > to reduce geometric trail, or else you end up with excessive trail and > the bike feel sluggish. When you narrow the tires you need to increase > the geometric trail, or you may end up with insufficient stability. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en-US. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
