We use ferrules for fine stranded wire at terminals. Www.ferrulesdirect has it all.
Phil Forest South Mountain Company > On Apr 30, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Ray Walters <[email protected]> wrote: > > NSI has sleeves rated for fine strand specifically made for this application. > They seem to be around $1 for the 2/0 version > Here's a supplier. > http://www.westwayelectricsupply.com/fs030-flexible-sleeve-657-i-d.html > R.Ray Walters > CTO, Solarray, Inc > Nabcep Certified PV Installer, > Licensed Master Electrician > Solar Design Engineer > 303 505-8760 > On 4/30/2014 12:25 PM, William Miller wrote: >> Ray: >> >> Thanks for sharing the research. If you could forward to me of-line an email >> contact and part number I need to order for 4/0. >> >> Miller Solar >> >> On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Ray Walters <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> What I'm finding in my research is that most of the manufacturers are just >>> not keeping up with this requirement, meanwhile the use of fine stranded >>> cable is increasing dramatically. >>> ILSCO, BURNDY, and Quick Cable all barely mention fine strand ratings. I >>> have their catalogs in hand. Even the SMA manual does not >>> mention this issue, I had to call tech support. >>> BTW, there appears to be some big name integrators just using flex cable >>> directly. Meanwhile, I can share a pic of the one lug I torqued down, and >>> didn't like, which lead to all this: >>> Little copper hairs tearing, or not part of the connection at all. >>> How did we survive the 90s stuffing welding cable into Heinemann breakers >>> in Trace DC boxes? >>> >>> Also, when you go into major Electrical suppliers that sell the flex cable, >>> and ask if the connectors are rated for fine stranding, all you get is that >>> "deer in the headlights" stare. >>> I was used to having to figure all this out in the old days of solar, but >>> now that every electrical supplier in town is claiming to be a solar >>> expert/ distributor, I really should be able to just walk in and get the >>> parts I need for a Code compliant installation. If you sell the inverter >>> and the cable, you really should stock the connector. >>> >>> On another note, the ferrules/ sleeves seem to be the ticket, as confirmed >>> by Schneider. Also they appear to be 40 times cheaper than pin adapters, >>> and don't take up extra room in the wiring compartment. Now I just have to >>> find some TODAY. Ugh... >>> >>> And like Allan, I lost sleep over this issue last night. >>> R.Ray Walters >>> CTO, Solarray, Inc >>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, >>> Licensed Master Electrician >>> Solar Design Engineer >>> 303 505-8760 >>> On 4/30/2014 10:38 AM, Glenn Burt wrote: >>>> There are many available lugs that are listed for use with finely stranded >>>> conductors - this is not an excuse to not use the proper lugs and required >>>> equipment to ensure a safe and reliable installation (per the NEC). >>>> >>>> Thomas & Betts is the manufacturer I use. >>>> Indeed the tool is pricey, however it is necessary to produce a compliant >>>> installation (per 110.3(B)). >>>> >>>> -Glenn >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jay peltz >>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:09 AM >>>> To: RE-wrenches >>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flexible stranded Connectors >>>> >>>> Hi ray >>>> >>>> As an FYI. Most of the lugs we all use are not "rated" for fine stranded >>>> wire. >>>> Quick cable is the only one I'm aware of that if you use their tool and >>>> ends says its UL for fine stranded. >>>> >>>> I prefer ferrules for those applications vs pin adapters. >>>> (Schneider XW inverter BOS box comes with arctic ultra flex wire with >>>> ferrules) >>>> >>>> Jay >>>> >>>> Peltz power >>>> >>>> >>>>>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 10:48 PM, Ray Walters <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi All; >>>>>> >>>>>> In order to avoid any of my work showing up in someone's slideshow of >>>>> horrors, I'm trying to find the correct way to wire 3 Sunny Islands with >>>>> Cobra X flex cable. >>>>> While it doesn't actually mention it in the SMA manual, a call to SMA tech >>>> support confirmed my suspicions: the DC lugs in the inverter are NOT rated >>>> for flex or fine stranded cable. >>>>> Both SMA and CED recommended I try Grainger's for crimp on adapters. >>>> Grainger had no clue, and nothing came up in searches there. >>>>> From a trade show, I have an ILSCO lug book, that shows a crimp on >>>>> pigtail adapter. It does not mention whether its flex rated though on the >>>> crimp side of the adapter, as the adapter is used primarily to land over >>>> sized cables into smaller lugs. (2/0 to #1, for instance) The best I've >>>> found so far, is NSI, which makes sleeves, that are installed around the >>>> wire, right in the connection: >>>>> http://www.nsiindustries.com/products/electrical/connectors/compressio >>>>> n-connectors/copper-compression/fsflex-cable-sleeve.aspx >>>>> I also found a Schneider white paper recommending sleeves with their lugs: >>>>> http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/0515DB03 >>>>> 01.pdf >>>>> >>>>> So who has used these sleeves, and where do I get them? >>>>> The sleeves seem like a decent compromise, whilst the ILSCO pigtail >>>>> adapters are coming in at $40/ ea...... (ouch) >>>>> >>>>> On the internet, I'm seeing several examples of X flex used directly (no >>>> adapters) with the Sunny Islands, so are folks just blowing off articles >>>> 690.31(F) and 110.14, that specify the connector be rated for flex cable? >>>>> And finally, couldn't SMA use a lug that was flex rated? >>>>> For example, Marathon makes Class K rated mechanical Lugs: >>>>> http://www.marathonsp.com/NewRatings.html >>>>> I'd use THHN, but I really don't feel good about wiring the Heineman >>>> breakers with that stiff a wire. I've cracked breaker cases >>>> before......that's why the X flex is industry standard for off grid DC. >>>>> Thanks for your help, >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> R.Ray Walters >>>>> CTO, Solarray, Inc >>>>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, >>>>> Licensed Master Electrician >>>>> Solar Design Engineer >>>>> 303 505-8760 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>>> >>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Change email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out participant bios: >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>>> >>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>> >>>> Change email address & settings: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List-Archive: >>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>> >>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>> >>>> Check out participant bios: >>>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>> >>> List Address: [email protected] >>> >>> Change email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: [email protected] >> >> Change email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: [email protected] > > Change email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
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