Thanks Phil;That's the best resource yet. Actual choices in length of the ferules, insulated or non insulated, and not afraid to talk about Class K stranded wire ratings, etc.
Maybe I'll get some sleep tonii-iight......
R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 4/30/2014 1:29 PM, Phil Forest wrote:
We use ferrules for fine stranded wire at terminals. Www.ferrulesdirect has it all.Phil Forest South Mountain CompanyOn Apr 30, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Ray Walters <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:NSI has sleeves rated for fine strand specifically made for this application. They seem to be around $1 for the 2/0 versionHere's a supplier. http://www.westwayelectricsupply.com/fs030-flexible-sleeve-657-i-d.html R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 4/30/2014 12:25 PM, William Miller wrote:Ray:Thanks for sharing the research. If you could forward to me of-line an email contact and part number I need to order for 4/0.Miller SolarOn Apr 30, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Ray Walters <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:What I'm finding in my research is that most of the manufacturers are just not keeping up with this requirement, meanwhile the use of fine stranded cable is increasing dramatically. ILSCO, BURNDY, and Quick Cable all barely mention fine strand ratings. I have their catalogs in hand. Even the SMA manual does not mention this issue, I had to call tech support. BTW, there appears to be some big name integrators just using flex cable directly. Meanwhile, I can share a pic of the one lug I torqued down, and didn't like, which lead to all this:Little copper hairs tearing, or not part of the connection at all.How did we survive the 90s stuffing welding cable into Heinemann breakers in Trace DC boxes?Also, when you go into major Electrical suppliers that sell the flex cable, and ask if the connectors are rated for fine stranding, all you get is that "deer in the headlights" stare. I was used to having to figure all this out in the old days of solar, but now that every electrical supplier in town is claiming to be a solar expert/ distributor, I really should be able to just walk in and get the parts I need for a Code compliant installation. If you sell the inverter and the cable, you really should stock the connector.On another note, the ferrules/ sleeves seem to be the ticket, as confirmed by Schneider. Also they appear to be 40 times cheaper than pin adapters, and don't take up extra room in the wiring compartment. Now I just have to find some TODAY. Ugh...And like Allan, I lost sleep over this issue last night. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 4/30/2014 10:38 AM, Glenn Burt wrote:There are many available lugs that are listed for use with finely stranded conductors - this is not an excuse to not use the proper lugs and required equipment to ensure a safe and reliable installation (per the NEC). Thomas & Betts is the manufacturer I use. Indeed the tool is pricey, however it is necessary to produce a compliant installation (per 110.3(B)). -Glenn -----Original Message----- From:[email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of jay peltz Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 10:09 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flexible stranded Connectors Hi ray As an FYI. Most of the lugs we all use are not "rated" for fine stranded wire. Quick cable is the only one I'm aware of that if you use their tool and ends says its UL for fine stranded. I prefer ferrules for those applications vs pin adapters. (Schneider XW inverter BOS box comes with arctic ultra flex wire with ferrules) Jay Peltz powerOn Apr 29, 2014, at 10:48 PM, Ray Walters<[email protected]> wrote: Hi All; In order to avoid any of my work showing up in someone's slideshow ofhorrors, I'm trying to find the correct way to wire 3 Sunny Islands with Cobra X flex cable.While it doesn't actually mention it in the SMA manual, a call to SMA techsupport confirmed my suspicions: the DC lugs in the inverter are NOT rated for flex or fine stranded cable.Both SMA and CED recommended I try Grainger's for crimp on adapters.Grainger had no clue, and nothing came up in searches there.From a trade show, I have an ILSCO lug book, that shows a crimp on pigtail adapter. It does not mention whether its flex rated though on thecrimp side of the adapter, as the adapter is used primarily to land over sized cables into smaller lugs. (2/0 to #1, for instance) The best I've found so far, is NSI, which makes sleeves, that are installed around the wire, right in the connection:http://www.nsiindustries.com/products/electrical/connectors/compressio n-connectors/copper-compression/fsflex-cable-sleeve.aspx I also found a Schneider white paper recommending sleeves with their lugs: http://static.schneider-electric.us/docs/Circuit%20Protection/0515DB03 01.pdf So who has used these sleeves, and where do I get them? The sleeves seem like a decent compromise, whilst the ILSCO pigtail adapters are coming in at $40/ ea...... (ouch) On the internet, I'm seeing several examples of X flex used directly (noadapters) with the Sunny Islands, so are folks just blowing off articles 690.31(F) and 110.14, that specify the connector be rated for flex cable?And finally, couldn't SMA use a lug that was flex rated? For example, Marathon makes Class K rated mechanical Lugs: http://www.marathonsp.com/NewRatings.html I'd use THHN, but I really don't feel good about wiring the Heinemanbreakers with that stiff a wire. I've cracked breaker cases before......that's why the X flex is industry standard for off grid DC.Thanks for your help, -- R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 ______________________________________________________________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address:[email protected] Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address:[email protected] Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazineList Address: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address:[email protected] Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazineList Address: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>_______________________________________________ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: [email protected] Change email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
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