Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum and Pumps

[Roy Butler]

Sweet....thanks for that info, I stand corrected! Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer IREC Certified Master Trainer™ for Small Wind Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Join us at the 10th Annual Small Wind Conference A Gathering of Installers, Manufacturers, Dealers, & Distributors June 17 and 18, 2014 in Stevens Point, Wisconsin www.smallwindconference.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 7/2/2014 2:55 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote: Hi Roy, The FullRiver DC400-6 AGM battery can issue 2000 amps for 5 seconds so he should be fine. Larry On Jul 2, 2014, at 12:35 PM, Roy Butler <r...@four-winds-energy.com> wrote: I haven't seen anyone mention the battery bank. If I understand correctly, there's a single string of sealed L16 batteries on this inverter. I have my doubts as to whether or not that bank can provide the high current the inverter needs to start this load. Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer IREC Certified Master Trainer™ for Small Wind Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Join us at the 10th Annual Small Wind Conference A Gathering of Installers, Manufacturers, Dealers, & Distributors June 17 and 18, 2014 in Stevens Point, Wisconsin www.smallwindconference.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 7/2/2014 2:10 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: To further qualify my statements, the inverter will start the pump without issue, but I should echo the warnings by others that if there are other loads present, especially other motor loads that could start ​concurrently, you may experience issues. As long as your customer understands the limitations and possibilities, you may be just fine. Jason Szumlanski ​ Fafco Solar​ On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Jason Szumlanski <ja...@fafcosolar.com> wrote: For what it's worth, I've run a single speed 1.5HP pool pump with a MS4448PAE in a mobile application on a 38.4kWh battery bank (sixteen Rolls S-530's). I have also run a 2.5HP Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed pool pump at full RPM, but that startup current is likely less than you well pump. I'm going to guess your 3/4HP well pump will be a breeze to start with this inverter. Jason Szumlanski  ​ Fafco Solar​ On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Allan Sindelar <al...@sindelarsolar.com> wrote: Drake, As a normal CYA, I'll always gently let a customer know that this (or any) particular combination of inverter and load sometimes proves incompatible, just in case the unexpected happens. (We once had a MS4448 that would not reliably start and run a condensing boiler; a switch to a different boiler resolved the issue.) Having said that note of caution, I wouldn't give it any concern. 3/4 HP and 1 HP well pumps have never been an issue; I would expect 1.5 HP to be easy to run. At 2 HP I'd be asking these questions here. You might check that it's a 3-wire, capacitor-start motor, but nowadays nearly all are. Two-wire pumps (with no control box) can add 50% to the surge. The Magnum has a fairly poor voltage regulation response. Sometimes the AC voltage can drop to ~80 VAC momentarily. So you might also caution your customer that the lights may flicker when the pump starts. In our home we know whenever our Kenmore fridge turns on. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@sindelarsolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. 505 780-2738 cell   On 7/2/2014 8:17 AM, Drake wrote: Hello Wrenches, We are hoping to use a Magnum PAE 4448 to back up a household that includes a 3/4 HP deep well pump. There is about 120 feet of vertical rise and about 1000 feet of horizontal distance. I have been told that there is a correlation between the locked rotor current of a pump and the predictable ability of a specified inverter to power that pump. The plumber who installed the pump left no paperwork and retained no records of what pump he put in the hole last year. He could only say it was a 3/4 HP pump. We are therefore unable to obtain the manufacturer's nameplate specifications. The Magnum PAE 4448 has a 1 mS surge of 70 A (at 240 V) and a 100 MS surge of 40 A. According to the NEC Table 430.251(A), a 3/4 HP motor has a locked rotor current of 41.4 amps at 230 V. This inverter can surge at 35.4 A for 5 seconds. The specified battery bank will be 8 Full River  L-16 AGMs. Can anyone say if: Is there enough information to know if this setup will handle the pump, and if so, will it? How can an inverter's ability to power a motor or pump be calculated by knowing its locked rotor current? Which surge periods should be compared to the locked rotor current? Does the surge current need to equal locked rotor. How long must the inverter meet its required maximum surge? From experience with Magnums and pumps, does this seem like a good combination? Thank you, Drake Drake Chamberlin Athens Electric LLC OH License 44810 CO License 3773 NABCEP Certified Solar PV 740-448-7328 http://athens-electric.com/  _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org _______________________________________________ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org

_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org