I've used Blue Planet, so I guess I have used an actual UL listed ESS,
even though they don't include the charge controller or inverter. I
knew they were UL, but I double checked and it is the UL 9540 standard
mentioned in 706. So in this case, we could ignore 480, but are held to
706. Regardless of 480 or 706, both are possibly requiring the outside
remote disconnect. Besides Midnite's remote trip breakers, and the
dreaded Bird House, what other options are there to meet this new
requirement? Can the Blue Planet be tripped remotely?
and still my initial question:
Under 480.7, are batteries below 60v still required to have the remote
disconnect? They are exempted from having a disconnect at all in
480.7(A)......quite confusing.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 10/19/20 7:06 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
Wrenches
Blue planet are fire and UL listed systems both on there 48 Volt and
the LX flavors
Jerry
On Mon, Oct 19, 2020, 5:51 PM Ray <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
The notes in the NEC 2020 Handbook for article 706 clearly state
that 706 only covers ESS which is an assembly of components, and
that the total assembly must be listed under UL 9540.
Further it states: "/A group of separate components that includes
storage batteries, that is provided with support systems (racks),
charge controllers, and inverters, and that does NOT have an
overall listing as an ESS is a storage battery system and as such
is subject to the requirements of article 480"/
and just in case someone says the notes don't matter, 706.5 says:
"/Energy Storage systems shall be listed"/.
So, since I have never used an actual listed ESS, I'm back to 480.
Specifically, 480.7 (A) says we need a disconnect for batteries
over 60 vdc (48v should be exempt) and then 480.7(B) says houses
need to have an outside disconnect for the batteries labeled
"Emergency Disconnect".
So here's the real question: Does 480.7(A) exempt us from 480.7(B)?
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
On 3/9/19 8:08 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
Hi Glenn, I don't completely agree with your interpretation of
ESS systems and the application of Article 706. Yes, an ESS
/could/ provide 120/240 VAC (e.g. the Powerwall), but the figures
in Article 690 show three different configurations where the
output of the ESS is not AC, and where the ESS disconnect comes
before any power electronics (like a multimode inverter, as shown
in the AC and DC coupled systems) or loads (as shown in the
stand-alone system). Are those ESS connected to other systems
which utilize stored energy to provide AC power? Yes, but the key
is "connected to other systems" - in many cases the ESS only
provides DC. In fact the definition of ESS clearly states this -
it /can/ have AC or DC output, and it /may/ include power
electronics (but may not).
My understanding is that the 60 volt limit (which is obviously
problematic in a world where 48 VDC batteries and ESS are very
common) was inserted in order to exempt other devices that store
energy (such as UPS, or battery backup in fire alarms/exit
signage/etc.) from the 706 requirements.
Cheers,
Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional™ R031508-59
National Electrical Code® CMP-4 Member
(520) 204-6639
Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org
SEI Professional Services
http://www.seisolarpros.com <http://www.seisolarpros.com>
On Sat, Mar 9, 2019 at 4:07 PM Glenn Burt <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Ray,
This is a conversation I have had some time ago with a number
of my fellow inspectors and code experts. When the 2017 NEC
came out, I agreed with Mike Holt and Bill Brooks' assessment
that the new article was poorly written and did not apply to
most systems being installed today. After much discussion
through my Cadmus network of authorities, it emerged that
indeed 706 apples to the typical residential systems.
So Energy Storage Systems (ESS) are the point of article 706,
and I believe that the key point is that the SYSTEM is
generating AC voltage of 120VAC or 240VAC, making the system
fall under article 706.
Batteries themselves are minimally covered by NEC 480, NFPA
1, and the IFC as applicable locally.
So, the bottom line is that the new article does cover the
work we do when systems provide or interface with 120VAC or
above (making the system operation exceeding the 60V AC trigger).
My initial problem was believing that the article applied to
a component (the battery bank), and not the system (all
components taken together as a generator/storage system). It
is an easy misunderstanding to make.
Hope this helps!
-Glenn Burt
-----Original Message-----
From: RE-wrenches <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf
Of Ray
Sent: Saturday, March 09, 2019 12:41 PM
To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: Bill Brooks <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>; Bill Brooks
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] NEC for Batteries < 60v ??
Hi Everyone;
I'm updating all my verbage on plansets, and I just realized
that the newly created article 706 covering Energy Storage
Systems is only for Over 60 VDC (706.1) Also article 480 for
batteries only requires disconnecting means over 60 VDC ?!
(480.7). I'm not about to not have a disconnect, so now
that NEC pulled battery systems out of 690, where do we go
for guidance on normal battery systems: 12, 24, 48 VDC?
Overall, I welcome most of the changes in NEC 2017, like
separating off grid systems into articles 706, and 710, but
it seems us off grid installers need some more clarification.
Thanks,
--
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760
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