Eugene has to be right on this. Surely a Jewish organization can refuse to hire members of Jews for Jesus, no matter how much they insist that they are Jewish. On the other thread about religious identity and the tenets of religious belief, I assumed that a private religious group permitted to engage in religious discrimination could exclude members of a class as long as they defined the class by conduct inconsistent with their faith at least to some extent.
In any case, I read the provision of the new law below to suggest that religious organizations can discriminate against same-sex couples to the same extent that they can discriminate against people of other faiths. Am I mistaken about that? Do other members of the list believe it means something else and serves a different purpose? And how do they interpret the last phrase "or from taking such action as is calculated by such organization to promote the religious principles for which it is established or maintained." Alan 2. Notwithstanding any state, local or municipal law or rule, regulation, ordinance, or other provision of law to the contrary, nothing in this article shall limit or diminish the right, pursuant to subdivision 8 eleven of section two hundred ninety-six of the executive law, of any religious or denominational institution or organization, or any organization operated for charitable or educational purposes, which is operated, supervised or controlled by or in connection with a religious organization, to limit employment or sales or rental of housing accommodations or admission to or give preference to persons of the same religion or denomination or from taking such action as is calculated by such organization to promote the religious principles for which it is established or maintained. ________________________________ From: [email protected] [[email protected]] On Behalf Of Volokh, Eugene [[email protected]] Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 1:49 PM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: RE: The religious exemptions in the new NY same-sex marriage law Surely they must be able to – just as Lutherans could decide who’s really Protestant enough for them, or Christians can decide that Mormons aren’t really Christians – since otherwise secular courts would have to decide the “true” boundaries of Judaism, which I take it that they can’t do. Eugene From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sanford Levinson Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 12:38 PM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: RE: The religious exemptions in the new NY same-sex marriage law Query: Can Orthodox Jews who run assisted living facilities deny that Reform or Conservative Jews are “co-religionists” (because, among other things, they ordain gays and lesbians and allow same-sex marriage), or are “they” stuck with “us,” whether they like it or not? sandy From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Marty Lederman Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 2:21 PM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Re: The religious exemptions in the new NY same-sex marriage law A very small, peripheral point: Chip writes that under current NY law, "if a religious organization owns and operates an assisted living facility, and it excludes occupants on religious grounds, and it preaches against same-sex intimacy, it probably would be free to exclude same-sex partners." I have no idea what the existing NY religious exemption looks like -- perhaps it simply exempts religious organizations from the antidiscrimination rules for assisted living facilities generally, in which case Chip's example is surely correct. But if, instead, such organizations only have an exemption to favor *coreligionists,* as under title VII -- i.e., in Chip's words, to "exclude occupants on [certain] religious grounds," namely, that they are not coreligionists -- and *if* such an organization permits only its own coreligionists to live in the facilities (unlikely but not inconceivable), then it likely could not exclude same-sex partners who are of the favored religion. The coreligionists exception, that is to say, is not a license to discriminate on the basis of other prohibited criteria (race, sex, sexual orientation, etc.) merely because such discrimination is religiously motivated -- it only permits discrimination in favor of coreligionists. On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 10:44 AM, Ira Lupu <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Whatever the current law in NY is, this doesn't change it. So if a religious organization owns and operates an assisted living facility, and it excludes occupants on religious grounds, and it preaches against same-sex intimacy, it probably would be free to exclude same-sex partners. Their marital status wouldn't change this. I very much doubt that the organization's power to discriminate extends to investment property. But that's a question of NY Human Rights law, and perhaps someone can enlighten on those details. The important point about the the same-sex marriage law is that it appears to leave that power to discriminate (whatever its scope) undisturbed. On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 4:49 PM, <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: How do folks read the "rental of housing" language? What if a religious organization owns rental property as an investment--does this mean they can reject gay partners even if the property is not otherwise used for religious purposes? Does this differ from current law? Marci Marci A. Hamilton Paul R. Verkuil Chair in Public Law Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law Yeshiva University Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Marty Lederman <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sender: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2011 16:24:50 To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Reply-To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Subject: Re: The religious exemptions in the new NY same-sex marriage law _______________________________________________ To post, send message to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. _______________________________________________ To post, send message to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. -- Ira C. Lupu F. Elwood & Eleanor Davis Professor of Law George Washington University Law School 2000 H St., NW Washington, DC 20052 (202)994-7053<tel:%28202%29994-7053> My SSRN papers are here: http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=181272#reg _______________________________________________ To post, send message to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
_______________________________________________ To post, send message to [email protected] To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
