Tammy The problem with this debate is that there are people on each side of it who are so passionate that rational debate is almost impossible. And, every time one enters the debate on Internet discussion groups, trying to achieve a balance between the competing rights and wrongs of the Israelis and the Palestinians, one ends up involved in long tortuous arguments with someone strongly committed to one side or the other and rational debate is just not a possibility. But it is a very complex question in which the rights of both Israeli's and Palestinians are under severe threat, both from each other and from within their own respective ranks
In order to gain some understanding of the history and complexity of the issues I suggest that you get hold of a copy of Benny Morris "Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist�Arab Conflict, 1881�2001". He is critical of both the Jews and the Arabs - he is an Israeli who angered the Israeli establishment 20 odd years ago by suggesting that the Israelis were largely to blame for the expulsion of the Palestinians from Israel at independence and afterwards. Anyway, the book examines the history of Jewish settlement in Palestine from the late nineteenth century and the conflict between their desires and aspirations and those of the population living in Palestine during the period � it then goes on to look critically at the actions of all relevant parties since Israeli independence. As I said he is critical of both sides. Having read a number of authors (English, American, Israeli, Arab) on the subject you find most are heavily committed to one side or the other. I do not say that Morris is perfect or impartial as we are all, to a certain extent, subject to our own biases (no matter how minor they are) and I acknowledge that he has been subject to much criticism - I do say however that his book gives what is a reasonable history in such a heated and emotional subject (although I am sure that there are those who would assert that his book is so faulty as to be misleading, biassed etc- as there always are about anyone who genuinely tries to address this topic in a balanced manner) Any way, that is one suggestion. But, whatever you do, do not seek enlightenment about the subject from anyone who is a committed Christian, Jew or Muslim because they are, by definition, not likely to bring an impartial mind to the subject. Nothing wrong with that impartiality, but they will be looking for converts to their view of Israel and will not be helpful in assisting you to make up your own mind. Garth Cartledge > > From: "Tammy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: 22/11/2004 12:02:19 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [rhetoric-list] Israel and Palestine > > > > Without alot of insults and heckling, could you please explain to me > what the conflict between Israel and Palestine all started about? I > know it's a Holy War and that's about it. Also, this being 2004, why > and whom has stopped any type of comprimise between these people? > Also, how far apart are they? Just across a river or miles and miles > away? Do people try to sneak over and defect like they have been > known to do here? And last.....WHY, WHY, WHY is Israel always > portrayed as the good and Palestine as the evil of the two? My aunt > (by marriage) is a born again Christian. She is studying to become a > minister and will accomplish this very soon. I am proud of her and of > her achievements. She has stuck with it and will succeed. The problem > I have is her pushing HER Christian way down my throat. I do my own > thing with God. I listen and learn from my Minister, I am always open > for discussion on religion and I have read some of the bible, but I > am far from being any expert. I have been a member of Bethany > Methodist Church since I was 15 yrs old and I am happy with mine and > m family's Christian Values. But Sherri apparently feels trhis is not > enough. She brings me tapes to listen to, books and what I am about > to disclose is what you have heard from all over....John Kerry is not > a Christain, The Kerry Team is full of tricks satanic ways, John > Kerry is trying to rule the world and is actually a descendent of > Lucifer himself. Now here comes the good part...."Tammy, George Bush > represents the good, he is pure and a right out Christian. he > protects Israel and will continue to do so as one of our World > Leaders. The world is coming to an end and it will end soon. All the > signs point to it. John Kerry will not protect Israel and you are > supporting his soon to be neglect. When the world comes to an end you > will not be able to go to heaven. You were not one of the keepers of > Israel. > > Now, don't get me wrong - I love Sherri and if anyone thinks I am > making fun of her, they are wrong. But come one....this is a little > crazy. WHY is Bush taking care of Israel. What makes them so special > and why is Palestine left off the list. And why are we taking care of > them anyway? Who are they to us? And to end I will say this, what do > these two countries give the USA? Are they protecting us? Do they > have oil like these money hungry turban wearing nasty looking Arabs > do? > > If you could help me to understand the background of this world wide > mess, I sure would apprecite it. I am hear to learn, not to be > sarcastic in anyway. I am an intelligent woman, but this concept is > just really lame if you ask me....Did President Roosevelt and Kennedy > and even President Nixon take care of Israel as well. Now don't start > throwing stones at me, I am just trying to learn. > > Tammy > > > > > > > ----- > / o o \ > ===OO=====OO============================================= > (4)Portals (2)News Wikis (2)Conferences - No BuSHIT! > Start here: http://pnews.org/ (On Internet since 1982) > http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) > http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) > ========================================================= > FIGHT THE RIGHT! > ================== > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > This message was sent through MyMail http://www.mymail.com.au ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. 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