Now this concept is fascinating ! Thank you !! Garth Cartledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:While I do not dispute much of what you have posted and that the Israelis did some terrible things you have left out a whole lot of relevant matters and placed other in an incorrect perspective - giving a totally false picture. You have dealt with none of the Arab States actions nor the fact that the PLO/Hezboula will not acknowledge Israel's right to exist, the fact that in 1948 the Arab States also told the Palestinians to leave their homes while the Arab States armies defeated the Israelis and to return when that defeat had taken place, that the Arab nations with a couple of hundred million people invaded Israel (with about a million people) with the intention of "driving the Jews into then sea" in 1948 after the United Nations sanctioned its existence, that in 1949-50 Jordan in an act of self aggrandizement annexed the West Bank, that the PLO have unswervingly sworn to "drive the Jews into the sea" (i.e., that they will never recognize Israel's right to exist and will continue to fight and kill Jews until they have destroyed Israel), that food convoys taking food to Jews in Jerusalem were attacked and when captured the Jews slaughtered like animals, that when the Israelis wanted to talk to eh Arab States after the 1967 war about giving back the capture West Bank the Arab States refused to talk to them, you have left out the machinations of the Arab states to keep the Palestinians as refugees in the camps so that they could be used as a weapon against Israel.... I could go on for some considerable time as I have just scratched the surface....
You have left out the bad side of Arab/Palestinian behaviour - indeed they are passive victims There is considerably more than this rather one sided posting. The Palestinians are in a terrible position, without hope or much future. Israel, in its own way, is also in a terrible position, becoming more and more locked into what appears to be repression but is actually being driven by a perceived need to defend themselves. But the point of this posting is, with respect, to say that this history leaves out so many relevant issues (even in general terms),as to make it unreliable Garth Cartledge " Despotism sits nowhere so secure as under the effigy and ensigns of Freedom", From Imaginary Conversations of Greeks and Romans (1853) by Walter Savage Landor 1775-1864 At 01:48 PM 22/11/2004, Wesley Parish wrote: >Tammy, to put it simply, without a lot of digressions, etc, the conflict >between >Israel and Palestine is the result of some Jews in Europe deciding they needed >to set up their own state after the infamous Dreyfus affair - where a >French Jew >was falsely accused of treason. This is called the Zionist movement. >http://www.flholocaustmuseum.org/history_wing/antisemitism/19c_antisemitism.cfm > >They talked a lot at first, then hit paydirt with the Balfour Declaration in >1917, wherein an infamously anti-Semitic Englishman, Lord Balfour, stated that >His Majesty's Government had no objection to establishing a Jewish homeland in >Palestine. >http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/balfour.htm > >Following that, the Zionists set up a state-within-a-state in Mandatory >Palestine. They made the great mistake of discounting the wishes and >intentions >of the people already there, the Palestinians. Back then, "Palestinian" meant >anyone who was living in Mandatory Palestine when the Mandate was set >up. That >includes Muslims, Christians, Jews and Druze. (Some Sephardic Jews already >living there were alarmed at the words and actions of their Ashkenazic >cousins. > http://www.hum.huji.ac.il/misgav/eng/eli.htm Elie Eliachar, "Living with >Jews" One of my personal heroes.) > >Arab conflict with both the Mandatory Authority Britain, and the >settlements of >the Yishuv the Zionist organization, broke out intermittantly, and reached a >sort of climax during 1929,1936-39. >http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2001/promises/timeline1.html >http://www.knowledgenews.net/issues2002/sample1.htm > >After the Second World War, the Mandate had become untenable, so the British >said they were unconditionally withdrawing. This made the conflict heat up >again. Then in April 9, 1948, the two Zionist splinter groups the ETZL >and the >LeHI, launched an attack on the Arab Palestinian village of Deir Yassin. They >also inflated the numbers of the victims, hoping that this would break the >spirit of the Arab Palestinians, which it did. >http://www.deiryassin.org/deniers.html&e=7370 >http://www.zoa.org/presrel98.htm&e=7370 > >Some Arab Palestinians fled, some were "escorted" off their properties, some >were also the subject of unwanted attention: >http://www.ramla.muni.il/E_ramla/dani%20mass/kibush.html >"On Febuary 18, 1948 A young Jew dressed as an Arab had infiltrated into the >marketplace carrying a basket full of explosives covered with vegetables. He >left the basket there and fled. The explosion killed 7 and injured 45." >- An example of terrorism, pure and simple. >http://www.jerusalem.anglican.org/news/news1064646888.html >http://www.palestineremembered.com/al-Ramla/al-Ramla/ > >Madinat Yisrael was declared on the 4th of May, and in response, the Arab >League >attacked. The Arab League was ill-prepared, and Israel enlarged the >territories >under its control as a result. Israel was unwilling to take back the Arab >Palestinian refugees, and imposed martial law and hefty land confiscations on >its Arab remnant population - it took them up till the late eighties in some >cases to get a semblance of equal rights. And Israel has since then gone and >rescinded much of that. > >The Palestinians are the refugees of that 1948 war and their >descendants. Some >are in refugee camps in the Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Egypt, and >others have >migrated further afield. Generally, only the already-well-educated have been >able to migrate - the rest have been stuck in the refugee camps waiting to >return to the homes they left or were expelled from in 1948. Though >Jordan has >given Palestinians citizenship. > >Israel captured Gaza and the West Bank in the 1967 war and the Palestinians >still living there or in refugee camps have lived under military occupation >since then, apart from the 1993-2001 period when they had an "interim" >Palestinian Authority. However, the Oslo Accords were set up primarily to >make >the Palestinians accountable to Israel for Israel's security, so they failed. >It would've been like making the Sephardim responsible in 1492 for Spain's >security! > >So that is a short and not exactly sweet history of the current unpleasantness >in the Holy Land so called. > >As far as sources go, trust the Palestinians on Palestinian matters - they >know >the matter best; trust the Israelis on internal Israeli matters - they know it >best. Trustworthy Israeli sources on the current crisis are Ta'ayush >http://www.taayush.org/ and Gush Shalom http://www.gush-shalom.org/english/ >and The Palestine Chronicle http://www.palestinechronicle.com/ is a >trustworthy >Palestinian source. > >Shalom > >Wesley Parish > >Quoting Tammy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > > > Without alot of insults and heckling, could you please explain to me > > what the conflict between Israel and Palestine all started about? I > > know it's a Holy War and that's about it. Also, this being 2004, why > > and whom has stopped any type of comprimise between these people? > > Also, how far apart are they? Just across a river or miles and miles > > away? Do people try to sneak over and defect like they have been > > known to do here? And last.....WHY, WHY, WHY is Israel always > > portrayed as the good and Palestine as the evil of the two? My aunt > > (by marriage) is a born again Christian. She is studying to become a > > minister and will accomplish this very soon. I am proud of her and of > > her achievements. She has stuck with it and will succeed. The problem > > I have is her pushing HER Christian way down my throat. I do my own > > thing with God. I listen and learn from my Minister, I am always open > > for discussion on religion and I have read some of the bible, but I > > am far from being any expert. I have been a member of Bethany > > Methodist Church since I was 15 yrs old and I am happy with mine and > > m family's Christian Values. But Sherri apparently feels trhis is not > > enough. She brings me tapes to listen to, books and what I am about > > to disclose is what you have heard from all over....John Kerry is not > > a Christain, The Kerry Team is full of tricks satanic ways, John > > Kerry is trying to rule the world and is actually a descendent of > > Lucifer himself. Now here comes the good part...."Tammy, George Bush > > represents the good, he is pure and a right out Christian. he > > protects Israel and will continue to do so as one of our World > > Leaders. The world is coming to an end and it will end soon. All the > > signs point to it. John Kerry will not protect Israel and you are > > supporting his soon to be neglect. When the world comes to an end you > > will not be able to go to heaven. You were not one of the keepers of > > Israel. > > > > Now, don't get me wrong - I love Sherri and if anyone thinks I am > > making fun of her, they are wrong. But come one....this is a little > > crazy. WHY is Bush taking care of Israel. What makes them so special > > and why is Palestine left off the list. And why are we taking care of > > them anyway? Who are they to us? And to end I will say this, what do > > these two countries give the USA? Are they protecting us? Do they > > have oil like these money hungry turban wearing nasty looking Arabs > > do? > > > > If you could help me to understand the background of this world wide > > mess, I sure would apprecite it. I am hear to learn, not to be > > sarcastic in anyway. I am an intelligent woman, but this concept is > > just really lame if you ask me....Did President Roosevelt and Kennedy > > and even President Nixon take care of Israel as well. Now don't start > > throwing stones at me, I am just trying to learn. > > > > Tammy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > / o o \ > > ===OO=====OO============================================= > > (4)Portals (2)News Wikis (2)Conferences - No BuSHIT! > > Start here: http://pnews.org/ (On Internet since 1982) > > http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) > > http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) > > ========================================================= > > FIGHT THE RIGHT! > > ================== > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >"Sharpened hands are happy hands. >"Brim the tinfall with mirthful bands" >- A Deepness in the Sky, Vernor Vinge > >"I me. Shape middled me. I would come out into hot!" >I from the spicy that day was overcasked mockingly - it's a symbol of the >other horizon. - emacs : meta x dissociated-press > > > > ----- > / o o \ >===OO=====OO============================================= >(4)Portals (2)News Wikis (2)Conferences - No BuSHIT! >Start here: http://pnews.org/ (On Internet since 1982) >http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) >http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) >========================================================= > FIGHT THE RIGHT! >================== > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.290 / Virus Database: 265.4.1 - Release Date: 19/11/2004 > > > > >-- >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. >Version: 7.0.290 / Virus Database: 265.4.1 - Release Date: 19/11/2004 ---------- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.290 / Virus Database: 265.4.1 - Release Date: 19/11/2004 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ----- / o o \ ===OO=====OO============================================= (4)Portals (2)News Wikis (2)Conferences - No BuSHIT! Start here: http://pnews.org/ (On Internet since 1982) http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) ========================================================= FIGHT THE RIGHT! ================== Yahoo! Groups Sponsor Get unlimited calls to U.S./Canada --------------------------------- Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rhetoric-list/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Tammy Osborne justoneofthelittlepeople --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Discover all that�s new in My Yahoo! 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