By way of afterthought, the response to my posting to Tammy did not really address what I was talking about but that is how conversations go - they move on
Garth Cartledge " Despotism sits nowhere so secure as under the effigy and ensigns of Freedom", From Imaginary Conversations of Greeks and Romans (1853) by Walter Savage Landor 1775-1864 At 07:28 PM 23/11/2004, Garth Cartledge wrote: >Well -- explain what you think I missed - although I was under the >(obviously mistaken) impression that this was a free flowing discussion >which moved around subjects. I did perceive the possibility of other >implications in the posting to which I responded but chose not to address >them but to move somewhere that your posting made me think about. Tell me >what you think I missed > >Garth Cartledge > > > >At 02:32 PM 23/11/2004, you wrote: > > > >you only barely understood what I wrote... > >N. > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 4:06 PM > >Subject: Re: Re: [rhetoric-list] Israel and Palestine > > > > > > > >You know, there is probably some truth in what you say about > >considerations for Israel affecting US > >policy - I had forgotten AIPAC - although the balance between israeli > >influence and the influence of > >US people who participate for their own reasons (some to support Israel as > >Israel, some because of a > >fundamental Christian belief that once the Jews hold Israel Christ will > >come again , etc) is hard to > >define. But obviously US policy is influenced by considerations related > >to Israel - however they > >still do not have any say in elections and issues of national sovereignty > >would prevail so that the > >US could not tell Israel what to do. > > > >But as to whether Israel itself has dictated US foreign policy I have very > >strong doubts. > > > >Garth Cartledge > > > >" Despotism sits nowhere so secure as under the effigy and ensigns of > >Freedom", From Imaginary Conversations of Greeks and Romans (1853) by > > Walter Savage Landor 1775-1864 > > > > > > > > > > > > From: "Norma J F Harrison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: 23/11/2004 8:33:11 > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Subject: Re: Re: [rhetoric-list] Israel and Palestine > > > > > > > > > actually, with the advent of AIPAC the American Israeli Political > > Action Committee/ The American > > > Israel Public Affairs Committee: America's Pro-Israel Lobby > > www.aipac.org that's not quite > > > accurate. The Israeli lobby, because it so strongly serves U.S. > > interests - has lots more $$$$ > >that > > > the Cuban lobby from Florida, does have major control over U.S. elected > > officials, reps and sens > >in > > > Congress, and over U.S. foreign policy. It is the major vehicle that > > has created the perverse > > > actions to date - the attack on/invasion of Iraq , including creating > > its former leaders, bringing > > > down revolutionary forces there and elsewhere in the area (middle East > > is the Western annunciation > > > of who 'those folks' are). Etc. > > > Norma > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Monday, November 22, 2004 12:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: Re: [rhetoric-list] Israel and Palestine > > > > > > > > > > > > Tammy > > > > > > Two things - > > > > > > Firstly, what does a United States Representative have to do with the > > workings of an independent > > > country? Israel is not a State of the USA and the US government, > > despite George Bush's > >pretensions, > > > is only the government for the US and has no authority in other > > countries (none of whom have any > >say > > > as to the composition of the US government, i.e., no votes in the US - > > sort of echoes the reason > > > that the US fought its war of independence - it too had no vote for the > > English governmnet and > >took > > > its independence because it objected to a government which it had not > > voted for telling it what to > > > do) > > > > > > Secondly, it is a very complex situation which has no easy > > answers. That is why I suggest you > >read.... > > > > > > > > > > ----- > > / o o \ > >===OO=====OO============================================= > >(4)Portals (2)News Wikis (2)Conferences - No BuSHIT! > >Start here: http://pnews.org/ (On Internet since 1982) > >http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) > >http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) > >========================================================= > > FIGHT THE RIGHT! > >================== > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- > / o o \ >===OO=====OO============================================= >(4)Portals (2)News Wikis (2)Conferences - No BuSHIT! >Start here: http://pnews.org/ (On Internet since 1982) >http://pnews.org/PhpWiki/ (West Coast News Wiki) >http://g0lem.net/PhpWiki/ (East Coast News Wiki) >========================================================= > FIGHT THE RIGHT! >================== > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! 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