It shows amazing stamina on your part , Parish, to inform so well, this list. However, the donnala won't get informed, as you probably recognize.. I've read and saved your well-composed summaries of events and understandings, because this issue is a major cause of U.S. attacks today - and of attacks on people living in supposed safety in the U.S., as well on Israelis, while Israel attempts to imply (lies) that it is, or should be safe for people who live in Israel... Never equate resistance with oppression (brutal, genocidal oppression), whatever form it takes, with attacks by the oppressors - like USIsrael upon 'Palestine'. Norma
----- Original Message ----- From: "Wesley Parish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 2:37 AM Subject: Re: [rhetoric-list] Israel and Palestine On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:27, donnella whitacre wrote: > garth it does no good here. as you can see, any one who even suggests that > perhaps the arabs might have been a little responsible for any of this is > labeled as i am pro israeli and anti palestinian despite the fact that i > post positive things about them. wesley can't get over his colonial rant no I believe I have pointed out the reasons for that a sufficient number of time; if not, I'll recap. The Zionists were Ashenazim (European Jews); they had not lived in Palestine for very many years and the few that did, were usually religious Jews going there to retire. It was the Sephardic Jews (the descendants of the expelled Spanish Jewish community) and a certain number of Mitzrahim, etc, who lived full time in Palestine, some dating back to the time of the Expulsions in Spain in 1492, the rest having arrived at varying dates. And if we are not to operate under the "tribal"/"clannish" mode of thought whereby it is the tribe/clan that is liable, not the individual, for the individual's deeds, then we must also accept that Sephardim aren't eligible for what is due Ashkenazim, and vice versa. Colonialism occurs when a large group of individuals seek to take over the land and thus diminish the liveliehood of another group of individuals. Colonialism occurred when Republik Indonesia invaded East Timor in Dec 9th 1975, in spite of the fact that they were next-door neighbours, so to speak, thus one could allege the Indonesians already lived there, and were just "going home"! Ditto when the Chinese started to move en masse into the Tibet Autonomous Region and Qinjiang Province. Ditto when the French moved the ex-Algerian colons into "New Caledonia" aka Kanaky. I have not seen any evidence that refutes that in relation to the Zionist presence in Mandatory Palestine, nor in the actions that brought about the establishment of the State of Israel. > matter how many times it is stated that jews lived there, did live there in > the palestine mandate along side arabs for centuries. won't acknowledge > jewish refugees as being part of that, that came from arab states. Of course I acknowledge that. At the time, I was not aware of the magnitude of the disruption; now I do know, I'm not pleading ignorance any longer. > population displacement is quite common in war time. If it is something that the Palestinians must simply endure, tolerate, etc, then why is Israel seeking compensation for the Iraqi Jews? You can't have it both ways. > just yesterday in the paper, i saw the head of hamas in a very nice silk > suit, swearing they will never acknowledge israel, nor do business with any > nation that does. if some one doesn't acknowledge some one's right to exist > and tries to push them to the sea, as has been quoted by numerous arab > leaders, then it is kind hard to see them as partners in a peace process. The Palestinians say the same thing about the Israeli leaders who signed a "peace" agreement, then went ahead and broke it, making it clear they were more interested in "transfer" than in peace. > abass and dahlan want no more violence, they want to i think work this out, > and who do the people favor? bargouti a murderer and terrorist. i have read > the PLO charter and it calls for the elimination of israel. the largest > portion of jews there are sephardic and mitzrihim, not european. but we Well, let me refer you to : Re: [RHETORIC] In re:"Press release..." and "Israeli raid" From: Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Mon Jun 7 01:49:38 2004 >> I would disagree with you that "most" of Israel's population is >> Sephardic= >> and that they came from surrounding areas. Here is a link and quote = >> where the numbers are laid out: = >> http://education.yahoo.com/reference/factbook/is/popula.html >> >> Ethnic groups Jewish 80.1% (Europe/America-born 32.1%, Israel-born = >> 20.8%, Africa-born 14.6%, Asia-born 12.6%), non-Jewish 19.9% (mostly = >> Arab) (1996 est.)=20 >> As far as I know, as well, most of the 20.8% Israel-born Jews are also >> = >> from Ashkenazic ancestry. // > will see what we will see, how they realine them selves over this, there > might be a chance at peace with new leadership in the palestinian quarter. > and whether ole wesley or any one who labels me pro israeli as if that were > some thing to be ashamed of, which i am not, that is what we all want is > peace there. both sides did things during the war, but both sides don't get > blamed for that . ><snip> -- Wesley Parish ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. 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