On Tu, 2020-03-31 at 16:45 -0400, drew Roberts wrote: > So... > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chuck <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Here are my steps. > > > > Open a cart in RDLibrary. Highlight Cut 1; touch Copy; touch > > Add; > > highlight the new Cut 2; touch Paste. It is at this point that the > > track appears, but often shows 0:00 length and when trying to open > > with > > Edit Markers, the 'no audio in this cut' warning appears. However, > > the > > track has ALWAYS been placed in the audio store drive, just not > > recognized as there by RDLibrary. > > So, this is the only point where the problem occurs? Once you make it > past this hurdle you are golden? <
Yes. If the track does not appear after Paste with a length of 0:00, then I am golden. Again, I was on 2.10.2 for a long time and never had this mysterious problem. It reared its head when I upgraded to 2.10.3. > If so, have you tried deleting the second cut and pasting again (in a > loop) until it shows up? Or once it fails the first time, will it > fail from then on? < I have tried that repeatedly; if the boot has this problem once, it will do it every time. If the boot does not have the problem, it is not a factor until another reboot. After each reboot, it seems random whether this problem exists or not. > > If the copy is successful, then I open the properly numbered _002 > > file from the audio store in Audacity. Perform the needed > > changes. > > Normalize to -13. Export back to the audio store, overwriting the > > _002 > > file. > > This is the point I thought the problem might be happening, when the > audio file Rivendell "knows" about gets changed out from under it. < If Rivendell sees the cut properly, I can do anything to it and return it to the audio store--including changing length--and there are no problems. When I open such a successful cut with Edit Markers, it automatically regenerates the proper time, if it changed, and everything in Rivendell works normally with that cut. > > I have tried exporting to a WAV file and importing as Cut 2, > > however > > that process is destructive. Only if I export directly back to the > > audio store, does quality remain high. > > Do you have a working theory as to why this is so? Is any part of > your workflow not in the digital realm? All digital. My intuition is that the actual Rivendell import is slightly destructive, as there is no discernible quality reduction if I put the exported WAV into an audio store cut that RDLibrary already recognizes--I am guessing that with 2 slightly destructive processes (Audacity plus RD import) the quality loss becomes noticeable. > If you export to a wav that is not in the audio store, and play that > with something like vlc, is the quality degraded? From changes made with Audacity? Yes. There is a slight quality loss with every import/change/export done with Audacity. Noise floor is also definitely raised, and RD's autotrim sees that difference. If you import/change/export a file in Audacity, then import the changed file and do more work on it and export it again, the quality loss becomes noticeable. Kind of like generational loss in the audio tape days. With an original file created in Audacity, no discernible quality loss on export to WAV. Almost every day, I record the weather report for the station in Audacity and export to a WAV file that has no discernible quality loss when imported to RD. I have experimented re-importing a WAV cut that I have taken from the RD audio store, and re-import it--noticeable quality loss. So I assume RD is not just copying that file into the audio store, but does something destructive with the import. > When that exported Cut is > > opened again in RDLibrary, the time is updated if changed, and I > > always > > double-check the markers, anyway. > > > > There is still a bit of quality loss and the noise floor is > > raised by > > using Audacity, because it converts into and out of it's own > > format. > > If I am just shortening a track (we have a 6:30 time limit on all > > songs, > > How do you shorten you songs? (Not germane to the issue, just > wondering.) < Usually using Exact Audio Copy's WAV editor. If careful and using the 'zero crossing adjustment' the edits are completely indiscernible. The great thing about doing this digitally, is if you make a mistake, just undo and do again. In magnetic tape days, recovering from a splicing error was a nightmare. > > so the ID always makes it within the legal time limits), I use > > the WAV editor in Exact Audio Copy which is not destructive. That > > editor is very hard to work with, though, as the interface is not > > very > > helpful. > > Do you have access to any other programs that wan work with your wav > files? Similar results or? < I do not know of any other editor that actually works without format conversion, except EAC's WAV editor. I have tried Ardour in place of Audacity, but its interface is too cumbersome to work efficiently and quickly. > So the copy process is done by RDLibrary, editing by external > > software, then the finished product returned directly back to the > > audio store. < Correct. As I noted, I am moving to v3.3 and the v2.10.3 is history due to RAM failure in the older machine, which RAM is soldered in, not pluggable. I have not yet had enough time with 3.3 to know if this problem still exists. But eventually, I will find out. Fortunately, I was well backed up. > Right, that is where I thought your problem might be occurring but, > iiuc, it is happening before that. > iiuc, it is happening before that. > > I changed my methods a bit to cope with this problem. Instead of > > operating on the copied track, I now edit the original Cut 1 track, > > considering that the pasted-but-disabled track can suffice as the > > original untouched track, and hope that one day the cause of this > > problem will be identified and somehow all those supposedly non- > > existent tracks that now litter the audio store can be re- > > recognized. > > > > Hope that explains. > > I am still not certain, but it is much clearer... > > --Chuck > > > > On Mo, 2020-03-30 at 20:06 -0400, drew Roberts wrote: > > > Chuck, > > > > > > I am asking for a bit of clarification and, if I am reading your > > > process right, I have a suggestion for an alternative process > > that > > > may make a difference. > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 4:44 PM Chuck <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > This sounds like a problem I had way back with v2.10.3, which > > > > Cowboy > > > > said he also encountered in later versions. It's a file that > > > > actually > > > > exists in the audio store, but which the Library and AirPlay > > say > > > > does > > > > not contain audio. > > > > > > > > Here was my experience. There are some songs that I want to > > do > > > > things to--like add reverb to the last note that might end in a > > way > > > > that makes it sounds chopped, or raise the volume on a fade-out > > to > > > > keep > > > > the level up until the desired segue point. In the library, I > > > > would > > > > copy cut 1 and paste to a new cut 2, > > > > > > I just went into my 3.x rdlibrary and did this for a test cart. > > > > > > > operate on cut 2 to achieve the > > > > desired result, > > > > > > Where / how are you doing this? Somewhere in rdlibrary? Or with > > an > > > audio editor "behind Rivendell's back" as it were? I am guessing > > the > > > latter. > > > > > > > then weight the original cut 1 to zero so it never > > > > played, but preserving that original track. > > > > > > If I am guessing correctly, the second cut has been altered and > > > rivendell did not do the altering. > > > > > > (I can't recall if I have ever done this in the past for other > > > reasons, I am fairly certain I have never tired what I think you > > are > > > doing. > > > > > > > I never had a problem in a > > > > couple years on v2.10.2, but in 2.10.3, that cut 2 paste would > > show > > > > 0:00 length and when opening the marker editor, it would claim > > > > there > > > > was no audio present in the cut--even though the cut 2 track > > > > existed in > > > > the audio store, and played fine with other software, showing > > no > > > > errors. > > > > > > If I am guessing correctly, here is an alternate workflow that > > may > > > make a difference for you if you have not already tried it and > > found > > > it does not make a difference. > > > > > > copy the cut in question to a working directory: > > > > > > cp /var/snd/000001_001.wav /tmp/working.wav > > > > > > operate on /tmp/working.wav to achieve the desired result > > > > > > click on import/export button to import another cut into the cart > > > select /tmp/working.wav > > > > > > Do your cut weighting trick per your usual workflow. > > > > > > This is all done with Rivendell watching "what it wants to > > watch"... > > > > > > all the best, > > > > > > drew > > > > > > > Now what's worse, is that this did not always happen. I > > could > > > > reboot, and sometimes things worked normally, as expected. But > > > > often > > > > when pasting into cut 2, the length would show as 0:00 and I > > knew > > > > RD > > > > would never, ever admit there was actually audio on that cut. > > > > > > > > This sounds like it could be similar to the problem you are > > > > having. > > > > My experience was that once the Library said that cut had no > > audio, > > > > no > > > > amount of rebooting or database checking would make it say that > > > > already > > > > existing pasted cut was playable. But rebooting sometimes > > cured > > > > the > > > > problem of the Library pasting a 0:00 track into a new cut. > > > > > > > > I'm just moving to v3.3, so I have not had enough time with > > it to > > > > see > > > > if that problem still exists. I never saw a fix reported, only > > > > Cowboys' report that he had seen it, too. > > > > > > > > --Chuck > > > > > > > > > On Mo, 30 Mar 2020 01:25:09 -0700 > > > > > Rich Stivers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Drew: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for these ideas. I'll try them and get back to the > > group. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > Rich > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/29/2020 4:54 AM, drew Roberts wrote: > > > > > > Rich, > > > > > > > > > > > > no pointers exactly but a few questions that might help > > isolate > > > > > > the > > > > > > issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > Will it play from rdlibrary? > > > > > > rdcartslots? > > > > > > rdpanel? > > > > > > > > > > > > You may need to configure sound cards for some of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you set markers in rdlibrary? > > > > > > > > > > > > Do this with the file that does not play and to a file that > > > > does > > > > > > play > > > > > > and compare: > > > > > > > > > > > > $ mediainfo /var/snd/017197_001.wav > > > > > > $ mediainfo /var/snd/017198_001.wav > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you see any obvious differences? > > > > > > > > > > > > You may need to install mediainfo. > > > > > > > > > > > > all the best, > > > > > > > > > > > > drew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 5:05 AM Rich Stivers < > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > This problem started recently. When I hit Start on a > > cart > > > > that > > > > > > is > > > > > > queued in RdAirplay, the cart does not play and goes > > away. > > > > > > > > > > > > In /var/log/messages I see these entries for the cart I > > > > > > attempted > > > > > > to play: > > > > > > > > > > > > Mar 27 20:35:40 rdhost rdairplay: finished event: Line: > > 0? > > > > > > Cart: > > > > > > 428214? Cut: 1 Card: -1? Stream: -1? Port: -1 > > > > > > Mar 27 20:35:40 rdhost rdairplay: > > LogPlay::StartEvent(): no > > > > > > audio,CUT=428214_001 > > > > > > > > > > > > The wav file for this cart exists and will play with > > the > > > > 'play' > > > > > > command. > > > > > > play /var/snd/428214_001.wav > > > > > > > > > > > > rddbcheck passes without errors. I'm running Centos 7 > > with > > > > > > Rivendell v2.19.3 > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know what this error means, rdhost > > rdairplay: > > > > > > LogPlay::StartEvent(): no audio,CUT=?? Does 'no audio' > > mean > > > > > > it thinks the file is missing, or it found a problem > > with > > > > > > pulseaudio? > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for any pointers, > > > > > > > > > > > > Rich Stivers > > > > > > KKUP-FM Cupertino/San Jose CA > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Rivendell-dev mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing > > > > > > *Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Rivendell-dev mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Rivendell-dev mailing list [email protected] http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
