That's a brilliant suggestion; I'm sure it would work--thanks for the idea! In fact, I could use that now to fix the previously essentially 'orphaned' files in the audio store.
Thanks again! --Chuck On We, 2020-04-01 at 12:13 -0400, drew Roberts wrote: > Chuck... > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 11:47 AM Chuck <[email protected]> > wrote: > > I have already tried just inserting a WAV file, properly named, > > into > > the audio store without importing, and RDLibrary does not recognize > > it > > is there. > > I know this, and to be clear, this is not what I was suggesting. > > I was suggesting actually importing something, say 10 seconds of > silence as cut 2 for the cart. > > So you have 123456_001.wav in /var/snd before you do that silence > import. > And you have 123456_002.wav as well after you import the silence. > > Then you can cp /var/snd/123456_001.wav /var/snd/123456_002.wav so > that the silence cut gets replaced by a copy of the actual cut. > > Now do your editing on 123456_002.wav and then put it back in > /var/snd or whatever you normally do. > > > snip > > > > Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it. > > You are most welcome. > > --Chuck > > all the best, > > drew > > > On We, 2020-04-01 at 07:32 -0400, drew Roberts wrote: > > > Chuck, > > > > > > One thought on a different workflow that may sneakily get around > > > > the > > > problem... > > > > > > Let's say we are working with cart 123456, cut 001 so we have > > > > file > > > 123456_001.wav in /var/snd > > > > > > Instead of using rdlibrary to copy cut 001 and paste to cut 002 > > > putting a copy of 123456_001.wav in 123456_002.wav into /var/snd > > > > and > > > hopefully showing up correctly in rdlibrary and then your > > > > process, > > > let's try this: > > > > > > Import some random audio to cart 123456 cut 2. This puts that > > > > random > > > audio, unrelated to cart 123456 into the cart as cut 2 and into > > > /var/snd as 123456_002.wav. > > > > > > Now, make a copy of 123456_001.wav, make the edits you want, > > > > export > > > to /var/snd/123456_002.wav and reopen in rdlibrary. > > > > > > Or, copy 123456_001.wav over 123456_002.wav and proceed from that > > > point as per your normal routine. > > > > > > Alternate editors... > > > > > > Many years ago, I used something called rezound a good bit for > > > > hobby > > > work. I seem to remember something called sweep. > > > > > > Some quick repo searches shows: > > > > > > kwave - sound editor for KDE > > > mhwaveedit - Simple and fast GTK2 sound editor > > > snd-gtk-pulse - Sound file editor (GTK+ user interface - > > > > PulseAudio) > > > sweep - Audio editor and live playback tool > > > > > > Since you mention trying ardour, there is also: > > > > > > traverso - Multitrack audio recorder and editor > > > qtractor - MIDI/Audio multi-track sequencer application > > > ecasound - multitrack-capable audio recorder and effect processor > > > lmms - Linux Multimedia Studio > > > > > > > > > Also: > > > > > > cecilia - Sound synthesis and audio signal processing environment > > > rosegarden - music editor and MIDI/audio sequencer > > > > > > all the best, > > > > > > drew > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:16 PM Chuck <[email protected] > > > > > > wrote: > > > > On Tu, 2020-03-31 at 16:45 -0400, drew Roberts wrote: > > > > > So... > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chuck < > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > Here are my steps. > > > > > > > > > > > > Open a cart in RDLibrary. Highlight Cut 1; touch Copy; > > > > touch > > > > > > Add; > > > > > > highlight the new Cut 2; touch Paste. It is at this point > > > > that > > > > the > > > > > > track appears, but often shows 0:00 length and when trying > > > > to > > > > open > > > > > > with > > > > > > Edit Markers, the 'no audio in this cut' warning appears. > > > > > > > > However, > > > > > > the > > > > > > track has ALWAYS been placed in the audio store drive, just > > > > not > > > > > > recognized as there by RDLibrary. > > > > > > > > > > So, this is the only point where the problem occurs? Once you > > > > > > > > make it > > > > > past this hurdle you are golden? < > > > > > > > > Yes. If the track does not appear after Paste with a length > > > > of > > > > 0:00, > > > > then I am golden. > > > > > > > > Again, I was on 2.10.2 for a long time and never had this > > > > mysterious > > > > problem. It reared its head when I upgraded to 2.10.3. > > > > > > > > > If so, have you tried deleting the second cut and pasting > > > > again > > > > (in a > > > > > loop) until it shows up? Or once it fails the first time, > > > > will it > > > > > fail from then on? < > > > > > > > > I have tried that repeatedly; if the boot has this problem > > > > once, > > > > it > > > > will do it every time. If the boot does not have the problem, > > > > it > > > > is > > > > not a factor until another reboot. After each reboot, it seems > > > > random > > > > whether this problem exists or not. > > > > > > > > > > If the copy is successful, then I open the properly > > > > numbered > > > > _002 > > > > > > file from the audio store in Audacity. Perform the needed > > > > > > changes. > > > > > > Normalize to -13. Export back to the audio store, > > > > overwriting > > > > the > > > > > > _002 > > > > > > file. > > > > > > > > > > This is the point I thought the problem might be happening, > > > > when > > > > the > > > > > audio file Rivendell "knows" about gets changed out from > > > > under > > > > it. < > > > > > > > > If Rivendell sees the cut properly, I can do anything to it > > > > and > > > > return it to the audio store--including changing length--and > > > > there > > > > are > > > > no problems. When I open such a successful cut with Edit > > > > Markers, > > > > it > > > > automatically regenerates the proper time, if it changed, and > > > > everything in Rivendell works normally with that cut. > > > > > > > > > > I have tried exporting to a WAV file and importing as Cut > > > > 2, > > > > > > however > > > > > > that process is destructive. Only if I export directly > > > > back to > > > > the > > > > > > audio store, does quality remain high. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have a working theory as to why this is so? Is any > > > > part of > > > > > your workflow not in the digital realm? > > > > > > > > All digital. My intuition is that the actual Rivendell > > > > import is > > > > slightly destructive, as there is no discernible quality > > > > reduction > > > > if I > > > > put the exported WAV into an audio store cut that RDLibrary > > > > already > > > > recognizes--I am guessing that with 2 slightly destructive > > > > processes > > > > (Audacity plus RD import) the quality loss becomes noticeable. > > > > > > > > > If you export to a wav that is not in the audio store, and > > > > play > > > > that > > > > > with something like vlc, is the quality degraded? > > > > > > > > From changes made with Audacity? Yes. There is a slight > > > > quality > > > > loss with every import/change/export done with Audacity. Noise > > > > floor > > > > is also definitely raised, and RD's autotrim sees that > > > > difference. > > > > If > > > > you import/change/export a file in Audacity, then import the > > > > changed > > > > file and do more work on it and export it again, the quality > > > > loss > > > > becomes noticeable. Kind of like generational loss in the > > > > audio > > > > tape > > > > days. > > > > > > > > With an original file created in Audacity, no discernible > > > > quality > > > > loss on export to WAV. Almost every day, I record the weather > > > > report > > > > for the station in Audacity and export to a WAV file that has > > > > no > > > > discernible quality loss when imported to RD. > > > > > > > > I have experimented re-importing a WAV cut that I have taken > > > > from > > > > the > > > > RD audio store, and re-import it--noticeable quality loss. So > > > > I > > > > assume > > > > RD is not just copying that file into the audio store, but does > > > > something destructive with the import. > > > > > > > > > When that exported Cut is > > > > > > opened again in RDLibrary, the time is updated if changed, > > > > and > > > > I > > > > > > always > > > > > > double-check the markers, anyway. > > > > > > > > > > > > There is still a bit of quality loss and the noise floor > > > > is > > > > > > raised by > > > > > > using Audacity, because it converts into and out of it's > > > > own > > > > > > format. > > > > > > If I am just shortening a track (we have a 6:30 time limit > > > > on > > > > all > > > > > > songs, > > > > > > > > > > How do you shorten you songs? (Not germane to the issue, just > > > > > wondering.) < > > > > > > > > Usually using Exact Audio Copy's WAV editor. If careful and > > > > using > > > > the 'zero crossing adjustment' the edits are completely > > > > indiscernible. > > > > The great thing about doing this digitally, is if you make a > > > > mistake, > > > > just undo and do again. In magnetic tape days, recovering from > > > > a > > > > splicing error was a nightmare. > > > > > > > > > > so the ID always makes it within the legal time limits), I > > > > use > > > > > > the WAV editor in Exact Audio Copy which is not > > > > destructive. > > > > That > > > > > > editor is very hard to work with, though, as the interface > > > > is > > > > not > > > > > > very > > > > > > helpful. > > > > > > > > > > Do you have access to any other programs that wan work with > > > > your > > > > wav > > > > > files? Similar results or? < > > > > > > > > I do not know of any other editor that actually works without > > > > format > > > > conversion, except EAC's WAV editor. I have tried Ardour in > > > > place > > > > of > > > > Audacity, but its interface is too cumbersome to work > > > > efficiently > > > > and > > > > quickly. > > > > > > > > > So the copy process is done by RDLibrary, editing by > > > > external > > > > > > software, then the finished product returned directly back > > > > to > > > > the > > > > > > audio store. < > > > > > > > > Correct. > > > > > > > > As I noted, I am moving to v3.3 and the v2.10.3 is history > > > > due to > > > > RAM > > > > failure in the older machine, which RAM is soldered in, not > > > > pluggable. > > > > I have not yet had enough time with 3.3 to know if this problem > > > > still > > > > exists. But eventually, I will find out. Fortunately, I was > > > > well > > > > backed up. > > > > > > > > > Right, that is where I thought your problem might be > > > > occurring > > > > but, > > > > > iiuc, it is happening before that. > > > > > iiuc, it is happening before that. > > > > > > I changed my methods a bit to cope with this problem. > > > > > > > > Instead of > > > > > > operating on the copied track, I now edit the original Cut > > > > 1 > > > > track, > > > > > > considering that the pasted-but-disabled track can suffice > > > > as > > > > the > > > > > > original untouched track, and hope that one day the cause > > > > of > > > > this > > > > > > problem will be identified and somehow all those supposedly > > > > > > > > non- > > > > > > existent tracks that now litter the audio store can be re- > > > > > > recognized. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope that explains. > > > > > > > > > > I am still not certain, but it is much clearer... > > > > > > --Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mo, 2020-03-30 at 20:06 -0400, drew Roberts wrote: > > > > > > > Chuck, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am asking for a bit of clarification and, if I am > > > > reading > > > > your > > > > > > > process right, I have a suggestion for an alternative > > > > process > > > > > > that > > > > > > > may make a difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 4:44 PM Chuck < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > This sounds like a problem I had way back with > > > > v2.10.3, > > > > which > > > > > > > > Cowboy > > > > > > > > said he also encountered in later versions. It's a > > > > file > > > > that > > > > > > > > actually > > > > > > > > exists in the audio store, but which the Library and > > > > > > > > AirPlay > > > > > > say > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > not contain audio. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here was my experience. There are some songs that I > > > > want > > > > to > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > things to--like add reverb to the last note that might > > > > end > > > > in a > > > > > > way > > > > > > > > that makes it sounds chopped, or raise the volume on a > > > > > > > > fade-out > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > keep > > > > > > > > the level up until the desired segue point. In the > > > > > > > > library, I > > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > copy cut 1 and paste to a new cut 2, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I just went into my 3.x rdlibrary and did this for a test > > > > > > > > cart. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operate on cut 2 to achieve the > > > > > > > > desired result, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where / how are you doing this? Somewhere in rdlibrary? > > > > Or > > > > with > > > > > > an > > > > > > > audio editor "behind Rivendell's back" as it were? I am > > > > > > > > guessing > > > > > > the > > > > > > > latter. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > then weight the original cut 1 to zero so it never > > > > > > > > played, but preserving that original track. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I am guessing correctly, the second cut has been > > > > altered > > > > and > > > > > > > rivendell did not do the altering. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (I can't recall if I have ever done this in the past for > > > > > > > > other > > > > > > > reasons, I am fairly certain I have never tired what I > > > > think > > > > you > > > > > > are > > > > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I never had a problem in a > > > > > > > > couple years on v2.10.2, but in 2.10.3, that cut 2 > > > > paste > > > > would > > > > > > show > > > > > > > > 0:00 length and when opening the marker editor, it > > > > would > > > > claim > > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > > was no audio present in the cut--even though the cut 2 > > > > > > > > track > > > > > > > > existed in > > > > > > > > the audio store, and played fine with other software, > > > > > > > > showing > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > errors. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If I am guessing correctly, here is an alternate workflow > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > may > > > > > > > make a difference for you if you have not already tried > > > > it > > > > and > > > > > > found > > > > > > > it does not make a difference. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > copy the cut in question to a working directory: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cp /var/snd/000001_001.wav /tmp/working.wav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > operate on /tmp/working.wav to achieve the desired result > > > > > > > > > > > > > > click on import/export button to import another cut into > > > > the > > > > cart > > > > > > > select /tmp/working.wav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do your cut weighting trick per your usual workflow. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is all done with Rivendell watching "what it wants > > > > to > > > > > > watch"... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now what's worse, is that this did not always > > > > happen. I > > > > > > could > > > > > > > > reboot, and sometimes things worked normally, as > > > > expected. > > > > But > > > > > > > > often > > > > > > > > when pasting into cut 2, the length would show as 0:00 > > > > and > > > > I > > > > > > knew > > > > > > > > RD > > > > > > > > would never, ever admit there was actually audio on > > > > that > > > > cut. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This sounds like it could be similar to the problem > > > > you > > > > are > > > > > > > > having. > > > > > > > > My experience was that once the Library said that cut > > > > had > > > > no > > > > > > audio, > > > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > amount of rebooting or database checking would make it > > > > say > > > > that > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > existing pasted cut was playable. But rebooting > > > > sometimes > > > > > > cured > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > problem of the Library pasting a 0:00 track into a new > > > > cut. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm just moving to v3.3, so I have not had enough > > > > time > > > > with > > > > > > it to > > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > if that problem still exists. I never saw a fix > > > > reported, > > > > only > > > > > > > > Cowboys' report that he had seen it, too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mo, 30 Mar 2020 01:25:09 -0700 > > > > > > > > > Rich Stivers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Drew: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for these ideas. I'll try them and get back to > > > > the > > > > > > group. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > Rich > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/29/2020 4:54 AM, drew Roberts wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Rich, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no pointers exactly but a few questions that might > > > > help > > > > > > isolate > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will it play from rdlibrary? > > > > > > > > > > rdcartslots? > > > > > > > > > > rdpanel? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may need to configure sound cards for some of > > > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you set markers in rdlibrary? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do this with the file that does not play and to a > > > > file > > > > that > > > > > > > > does > > > > > > > > > > play > > > > > > > > > > and compare: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $ mediainfo /var/snd/017197_001.wav > > > > > > > > > > $ mediainfo /var/snd/017198_001.wav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you see any obvious differences? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may need to install mediainfo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 5:05 AM Rich Stivers < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This problem started recently. When I hit Start > > > > on > > > > a > > > > > > cart > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > > queued in RdAirplay, the cart does not play and > > > > > > > > goes > > > > > > away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In /var/log/messages I see these entries for > > > > the > > > > cart I > > > > > > > > > > attempted > > > > > > > > > > to play: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mar 27 20:35:40 rdhost rdairplay: finished > > > > event: > > > > Line: > > > > > > 0? > > > > > > > > > > Cart: > > > > > > > > > > 428214? Cut: 1 Card: -1? Stream: -1? Port: -1 > > > > > > > > > > Mar 27 20:35:40 rdhost rdairplay: > > > > > > > > > > > > LogPlay::StartEvent(): no > > > > > > > > > > audio,CUT=428214_001 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The wav file for this cart exists and will play > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > 'play' > > > > > > > > > > command. > > > > > > > > > > play /var/snd/428214_001.wav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rddbcheck passes without errors. I'm running > > > > Centos > > > > 7 > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > Rivendell v2.19.3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know what this error means, rdhost > > > > > > > > > > > > rdairplay: > > > > > > > > > > LogPlay::StartEvent(): no audio,CUT=?? Does 'no > > > > > > > > audio' > > > > > > mean > > > > > > > > > > it thinks the file is missing, or it found a > > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > pulseaudio? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for any pointers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rich Stivers > > > > > > > > > > KKUP-FM Cupertino/San Jose CA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Rivendell-dev mailing list > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing > > > > > > > > > > *Bahamian Or Nuttin* - > > > > > > > > https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Rivendell-dev mailing list > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Rivendell-dev mailing list [email protected] http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
