Chuck, One thought on a different workflow that may sneakily get around the problem...
Let's say we are working with cart 123456, cut 001 so we have file 123456_001.wav in /var/snd Instead of using rdlibrary to copy cut 001 and paste to cut 002 putting a copy of 123456_001.wav in 123456_002.wav into /var/snd and hopefully showing up correctly in rdlibrary and then your process, let's try this: Import some random audio to cart 123456 cut 2. This puts that random audio, unrelated to cart 123456 into the cart as cut 2 and into /var/snd as 123456_002.wav. Now, make a copy of 123456_001.wav, make the edits you want, export to /var/snd/123456_002.wav and reopen in rdlibrary. Or, copy 123456_001.wav over 123456_002.wav and proceed from that point as per your normal routine. Alternate editors... Many years ago, I used something called rezound a good bit for hobby work. I seem to remember something called sweep. Some quick repo searches shows: kwave - sound editor for KDE mhwaveedit - Simple and fast GTK2 sound editor snd-gtk-pulse - Sound file editor (GTK+ user interface - PulseAudio) sweep - Audio editor and live playback tool Since you mention trying ardour, there is also: traverso - Multitrack audio recorder and editor qtractor - MIDI/Audio multi-track sequencer application ecasound - multitrack-capable audio recorder and effect processor lmms - Linux Multimedia Studio Also: cecilia - Sound synthesis and audio signal processing environment rosegarden - music editor and MIDI/audio sequencer all the best, drew On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:16 PM Chuck <[email protected]> wrote: > On Tu, 2020-03-31 at 16:45 -0400, drew Roberts wrote: > > So... > > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 11:39 AM Chuck <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > Here are my steps. > > > > > > Open a cart in RDLibrary. Highlight Cut 1; touch Copy; touch > > > Add; > > > highlight the new Cut 2; touch Paste. It is at this point that the > > > track appears, but often shows 0:00 length and when trying to open > > > with > > > Edit Markers, the 'no audio in this cut' warning appears. However, > > > the > > > track has ALWAYS been placed in the audio store drive, just not > > > recognized as there by RDLibrary. > > > > So, this is the only point where the problem occurs? Once you make it > > past this hurdle you are golden? < > > Yes. If the track does not appear after Paste with a length of 0:00, > then I am golden. > > Again, I was on 2.10.2 for a long time and never had this mysterious > problem. It reared its head when I upgraded to 2.10.3. > > > If so, have you tried deleting the second cut and pasting again (in a > > loop) until it shows up? Or once it fails the first time, will it > > fail from then on? < > > I have tried that repeatedly; if the boot has this problem once, it > will do it every time. If the boot does not have the problem, it is > not a factor until another reboot. After each reboot, it seems random > whether this problem exists or not. > > > > If the copy is successful, then I open the properly numbered _002 > > > file from the audio store in Audacity. Perform the needed > > > changes. > > > Normalize to -13. Export back to the audio store, overwriting the > > > _002 > > > file. > > > > This is the point I thought the problem might be happening, when the > > audio file Rivendell "knows" about gets changed out from under it. < > > If Rivendell sees the cut properly, I can do anything to it and > return it to the audio store--including changing length--and there are > no problems. When I open such a successful cut with Edit Markers, it > automatically regenerates the proper time, if it changed, and > everything in Rivendell works normally with that cut. > > > > I have tried exporting to a WAV file and importing as Cut 2, > > > however > > > that process is destructive. Only if I export directly back to the > > > audio store, does quality remain high. > > > > Do you have a working theory as to why this is so? Is any part of > > your workflow not in the digital realm? > > All digital. My intuition is that the actual Rivendell import is > slightly destructive, as there is no discernible quality reduction if I > put the exported WAV into an audio store cut that RDLibrary already > recognizes--I am guessing that with 2 slightly destructive processes > (Audacity plus RD import) the quality loss becomes noticeable. > > > If you export to a wav that is not in the audio store, and play that > > with something like vlc, is the quality degraded? > > From changes made with Audacity? Yes. There is a slight quality > loss with every import/change/export done with Audacity. Noise floor > is also definitely raised, and RD's autotrim sees that difference. If > you import/change/export a file in Audacity, then import the changed > file and do more work on it and export it again, the quality loss > becomes noticeable. Kind of like generational loss in the audio tape > days. > > With an original file created in Audacity, no discernible quality > loss on export to WAV. Almost every day, I record the weather report > for the station in Audacity and export to a WAV file that has no > discernible quality loss when imported to RD. > > I have experimented re-importing a WAV cut that I have taken from the > RD audio store, and re-import it--noticeable quality loss. So I assume > RD is not just copying that file into the audio store, but does > something destructive with the import. > > > When that exported Cut is > > > opened again in RDLibrary, the time is updated if changed, and I > > > always > > > double-check the markers, anyway. > > > > > > There is still a bit of quality loss and the noise floor is > > > raised by > > > using Audacity, because it converts into and out of it's own > > > format. > > > If I am just shortening a track (we have a 6:30 time limit on all > > > songs, > > > > How do you shorten you songs? (Not germane to the issue, just > > wondering.) < > > Usually using Exact Audio Copy's WAV editor. If careful and using > the 'zero crossing adjustment' the edits are completely indiscernible. > The great thing about doing this digitally, is if you make a mistake, > just undo and do again. In magnetic tape days, recovering from a > splicing error was a nightmare. > > > > so the ID always makes it within the legal time limits), I use > > > the WAV editor in Exact Audio Copy which is not destructive. That > > > editor is very hard to work with, though, as the interface is not > > > very > > > helpful. > > > > Do you have access to any other programs that wan work with your wav > > files? Similar results or? < > > I do not know of any other editor that actually works without format > conversion, except EAC's WAV editor. I have tried Ardour in place of > Audacity, but its interface is too cumbersome to work efficiently and > quickly. > > > So the copy process is done by RDLibrary, editing by external > > > software, then the finished product returned directly back to the > > > audio store. < > > Correct. > > As I noted, I am moving to v3.3 and the v2.10.3 is history due to RAM > failure in the older machine, which RAM is soldered in, not pluggable. > I have not yet had enough time with 3.3 to know if this problem still > exists. But eventually, I will find out. Fortunately, I was well > backed up. > > > Right, that is where I thought your problem might be occurring but, > > iiuc, it is happening before that. > > iiuc, it is happening before that. > > > I changed my methods a bit to cope with this problem. Instead of > > > operating on the copied track, I now edit the original Cut 1 track, > > > considering that the pasted-but-disabled track can suffice as the > > > original untouched track, and hope that one day the cause of this > > > problem will be identified and somehow all those supposedly non- > > > existent tracks that now litter the audio store can be re- > > > recognized. > > > > > > Hope that explains. > > > > I am still not certain, but it is much clearer... > > > --Chuck > > > > > > On Mo, 2020-03-30 at 20:06 -0400, drew Roberts wrote: > > > > Chuck, > > > > > > > > I am asking for a bit of clarification and, if I am reading your > > > > process right, I have a suggestion for an alternative process > > > that > > > > may make a difference. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 4:44 PM Chuck <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > This sounds like a problem I had way back with v2.10.3, which > > > > > Cowboy > > > > > said he also encountered in later versions. It's a file that > > > > > actually > > > > > exists in the audio store, but which the Library and AirPlay > > > say > > > > > does > > > > > not contain audio. > > > > > > > > > > Here was my experience. There are some songs that I want to > > > do > > > > > things to--like add reverb to the last note that might end in a > > > way > > > > > that makes it sounds chopped, or raise the volume on a fade-out > > > to > > > > > keep > > > > > the level up until the desired segue point. In the library, I > > > > > would > > > > > copy cut 1 and paste to a new cut 2, > > > > > > > > I just went into my 3.x rdlibrary and did this for a test cart. > > > > > > > > > operate on cut 2 to achieve the > > > > > desired result, > > > > > > > > Where / how are you doing this? Somewhere in rdlibrary? Or with > > > an > > > > audio editor "behind Rivendell's back" as it were? I am guessing > > > the > > > > latter. > > > > > > > > > then weight the original cut 1 to zero so it never > > > > > played, but preserving that original track. > > > > > > > > If I am guessing correctly, the second cut has been altered and > > > > rivendell did not do the altering. > > > > > > > > (I can't recall if I have ever done this in the past for other > > > > reasons, I am fairly certain I have never tired what I think you > > > are > > > > doing. > > > > > > > > > I never had a problem in a > > > > > couple years on v2.10.2, but in 2.10.3, that cut 2 paste would > > > show > > > > > 0:00 length and when opening the marker editor, it would claim > > > > > there > > > > > was no audio present in the cut--even though the cut 2 track > > > > > existed in > > > > > the audio store, and played fine with other software, showing > > > no > > > > > errors. > > > > > > > > If I am guessing correctly, here is an alternate workflow that > > > may > > > > make a difference for you if you have not already tried it and > > > found > > > > it does not make a difference. > > > > > > > > copy the cut in question to a working directory: > > > > > > > > cp /var/snd/000001_001.wav /tmp/working.wav > > > > > > > > operate on /tmp/working.wav to achieve the desired result > > > > > > > > click on import/export button to import another cut into the cart > > > > select /tmp/working.wav > > > > > > > > Do your cut weighting trick per your usual workflow. > > > > > > > > This is all done with Rivendell watching "what it wants to > > > watch"... > > > > > > > > all the best, > > > > > > > > drew > > > > > > > > > Now what's worse, is that this did not always happen. I > > > could > > > > > reboot, and sometimes things worked normally, as expected. But > > > > > often > > > > > when pasting into cut 2, the length would show as 0:00 and I > > > knew > > > > > RD > > > > > would never, ever admit there was actually audio on that cut. > > > > > > > > > > This sounds like it could be similar to the problem you are > > > > > having. > > > > > My experience was that once the Library said that cut had no > > > audio, > > > > > no > > > > > amount of rebooting or database checking would make it say that > > > > > already > > > > > existing pasted cut was playable. But rebooting sometimes > > > cured > > > > > the > > > > > problem of the Library pasting a 0:00 track into a new cut. > > > > > > > > > > I'm just moving to v3.3, so I have not had enough time with > > > it to > > > > > see > > > > > if that problem still exists. I never saw a fix reported, only > > > > > Cowboys' report that he had seen it, too. > > > > > > > > > > --Chuck > > > > > > > > > > > On Mo, 30 Mar 2020 01:25:09 -0700 > > > > > > Rich Stivers <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Drew: > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for these ideas. I'll try them and get back to the > > > group. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Rich > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 3/29/2020 4:54 AM, drew Roberts wrote: > > > > > > > Rich, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > no pointers exactly but a few questions that might help > > > isolate > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > issue... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Will it play from rdlibrary? > > > > > > > rdcartslots? > > > > > > > rdpanel? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may need to configure sound cards for some of them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can you set markers in rdlibrary? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do this with the file that does not play and to a file that > > > > > does > > > > > > > play > > > > > > > and compare: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > $ mediainfo /var/snd/017197_001.wav > > > > > > > $ mediainfo /var/snd/017198_001.wav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you see any obvious differences? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You may need to install mediainfo. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > all the best, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drew > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2020 at 5:05 AM Rich Stivers < > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This problem started recently. When I hit Start on a > > > cart > > > > > that > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > queued in RdAirplay, the cart does not play and goes > > > away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In /var/log/messages I see these entries for the cart I > > > > > > > attempted > > > > > > > to play: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mar 27 20:35:40 rdhost rdairplay: finished event: Line: > > > 0? > > > > > > > Cart: > > > > > > > 428214? Cut: 1 Card: -1? Stream: -1? Port: -1 > > > > > > > Mar 27 20:35:40 rdhost rdairplay: > > > LogPlay::StartEvent(): no > > > > > > > audio,CUT=428214_001 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The wav file for this cart exists and will play with > > > the > > > > > 'play' > > > > > > > command. > > > > > > > play /var/snd/428214_001.wav > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rddbcheck passes without errors. I'm running Centos 7 > > > with > > > > > > > Rivendell v2.19.3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anyone know what this error means, rdhost > > > rdairplay: > > > > > > > LogPlay::StartEvent(): no audio,CUT=?? Does 'no audio' > > > mean > > > > > > > it thinks the file is missing, or it found a problem > > > with > > > > > > > pulseaudio? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for any pointers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rich Stivers > > > > > > > KKUP-FM Cupertino/San Jose CA > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Rivendell-dev mailing list > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing > > > > > > > *Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Rivendell-dev mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev > > > > > > > > > > > > -- Enjoy the *Paradise Island Cam* playing *Bahamian Or Nuttin* - https://www.paradiseislandcam.com/
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