RE: (RUP) RE: (ROSE) Process Modelling?

[Lyalin, David S.]

Title: RE: (RUP) RE: (ROSE) Process Modelling?

Romuald,

 

1. Was it not clear from my posting that questions about UML-Business Modeling and Tools (Rose/ReqPro) - Business modeling are two different questions?

    I placed them in different paragraphs separated by a blank line. How it can NOT be viewed as a two different questions?! I am puzzled.

    Anyway, I will start numbering the separate issues to avoid such misunderstanding.

 

2. I think that Business Modelers should master a tool like Rose. You would expect certain degree of sophistication from this type of people :-)

    Also, pretty often Business and System modeler is the same person.

 

David 

-----Original Message-----
From: Romuald Restout [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:19 AM
To: 'Harold van Garderen'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: (RUP) RE: (ROSE) Process Modelling?

I agree with Harold on this point.

There are actually two subjects
1. Is UML useful for Business Modeling?
2. Is Rose tool suitable for business modelers?

Answer to 1st question is Yes. UML is suitable for business modeling, while there is still a lot of room for improvement.

Answer to 2nd question is, IMO, No. Rose is a very powerful tool, but far from being user-friendly.
Business Modelers are above all business experts, and while I agree, they have to develop their modeling skills, they don't need to master a software such as Rose.

Romuald Restout
Software Architect, Recruitsoft

P: 418.524.5665, x 232
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.recruitsoft.com/

-----Original Message-----
From: Harold van Garderen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:00 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: (RUP) RE: (ROSE) Process Modelling?

At 09:25 20-9-2002 -0400, Lyalin, David S wrote:

>Your posting is an excellent illustration of the following problem:
>Rational is very vague with Business Modeling issues, its strategy
>with the subject (if any) unclear, its positioning of Rose and ReqPro
>as business modeling tool is unconvincing.
>
>What do you mean saying that UML can be used to model business process
>"in general"? Could you elaborate on "specific" situations where UML
>can't be used for this purpose?

I find it strange that Lyalin keeps on confusing UML, the notation language
with the tools like
Rose & ReqPro. But if you want my answer: yes, you can model Business
Processes with UML,
although you can in principle do it, I wouldn't attempt to use Rose/Repro
to build a full set of models
as proposed in Zachman's Enterprise Architecture Framework. I find Rational
very clear on this,
they even explicitely refer to  more in-depth business modelling frameworks
that are not covered in the RUP process.

>Do you think that Rose and ReqPro "the best choice" of tools for
>business modeling? Maybe Casewise or some of the "lots of others tools"
>are better?

I think I didn;t see anyone saying this. Again see Zachman site
www.zifa.com for links to BP modeling tooling.

>Should we use UML for business modeling, or should we draw "pictures and
>boxes" with PowerPoint?

This question does not deserve an anwer I'm afraid.

Harold van Garderen

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dr. Harold F. van Garderen
Group Research and Technology
Océ Technologies B.V.
R&D, building 2S, room 167
St. Urbanusweg 43, Venlo, The Netherlands
P.O. Box 101, 5900 MA, Venlo, The Netherlands
tel. +31 77 359 2446
fax. +31 77 359 5471
email. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
           [EMAIL PROTECTED]
           [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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The content of this email is an expression of a personal opinion and
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